M1 Exit test - Is this cause for a fail ? | GTAMotorcycle.com

M1 Exit test - Is this cause for a fail ?

mstram

Well-known member
[video=youtube;IUNPpScqvH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUNPpScqvH4[/video]

The cameraman's comment "Oh....".

Is going past the cones there an automatic fail for the whole test or a
"points loss" ?
 
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From what I recall you accumulate points for every error. I forgot what the pass - fail amount was. In the example above the rider would have accumulated points if they stopped past the marked limit.
 
Ok, thx.

Why is the RTI test different than what's posted on the MTO's site : ?
(MTO = 3 stage, RTI=5 stage (assuming it's 5 from the "Leo Series" on Ytube)

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section8-0-0.shtml

Because the schools (generally) test the student using a method called the "MOST II test" (Motorcycle Operator Skill Test). Not the same testing method as the MTO uses. And it actually is comprised of 8 test sections... but a couple of the sections have another skill test hidden within another (so it appears to be 1 section but its actually 2)
 
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I went through the course with Rider Training Institute and failed the test and the retest.
I was told I am not smooth enough wtf?

I aced all the tests and crossed the line once in the right turn and up to second then come to a complete stop.
People that dumped their bikes and stalled amongst other things passed no problem.
I am going to buy my own bike and ride on my own with my m1.
I had troubles with the beat up bikes had to kick the lever on the first to get into gear.
I then changed bikes and it kept shutting off in neutral.
There were too many people in the class so it was more like line up and wait 10 minutes to practice on each course.
Thant is my experience and not a good one.
 
Sorry to hear that oletimer.

In addition to venting here (and there RTI staff here who post occasionally), have you been in touch with the "Boss" at RTI ? (Sorry I don't know who that might be).

Before they gave you the test, was the "smoothness judging criteria" explained?

I'm not having much luck finding what the MTO standards are for either the testing or the course curriculum.

For the "MOST II test" the only hit I get is
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/most/index.html

Australia ?

Mike
 
Hi Mstram
The smoothness was explained and I don't think I was rough but they judge and I don't know who the boss is for rti.
On the link you posted it says points for stalling and I stalled twice.
However it was due to the bike shutting off and one of the criteria was road worthy bikes not beaters.
In any case I don't plan to test there I am going to the mto/dmv.
Most of the bikes were beaten up and through the course they get dropped so what can I say.
I think most people get frustrated waiting in line to practice and after 6 hours of doing that and sitting in 30 degrees in full gear makes it frustrating.
Plus I bought a top notch glove for 129 bucks from royal with the finger and knuckle armor and they refused to let me wear it but they let me ride with a plain leather glove I use for winter duh.
 
Mike - I dont think you are going to find too much online regarding it - because its a test! My advice is to stop worrying about what is on the test at the end of the weekend - and focus on the course and learning - and being smooth with- the operational skills of the motorcycle.
Focus on:
1) being nice and smooth on that bike with all your inputs and
2) keeping your head up and looking ahead.
THATTTTTT will be what you need!! Its not about 'passing a test' either - Its about learning a new skill properly and proficiently and being SAFE. All the things you require to pass the test are within the course you take anyway.... so focus on each task they give you throughout the weekend. (These courses all build and progress as they go).
 
Hi Mstram
The smoothness was explained and I don't think I was rough but they judge and I don't know who the boss is for rti.

Is it one instructor who makes the decision or is it a "committee" decision ?

If one instructor, and if he/she wasn't the chief instructor ... :
I would call RTI, find out who the chief instructor is, and ask how it is possible that you could ace all the tests, minus the one "line", and be judged to be "not smooth enough".

What did they say about the smoothness / lack thereof ?

On the link you posted it says points for stalling and I stalled twice.

Well that is from NSW / Australia. Though probably similar, I don't know how much of what's there applies here.

However it was due to the bike shutting off and one of the criteria was road worthy bikes not beaters.
In any case I don't plan to test there I am going to the mto/dmv.
Most of the bikes were beaten up and through the course they get dropped so what can I say.
I think most people get frustrated waiting in line to practice and after 6 hours of doing that and sitting in 30 degrees in full gear makes it frustrating.
Plus I bought a top notch glove for 129 bucks from royal with the finger and knuckle armor and they refused to let me wear it but they let me ride with a plain leather glove I use for winter duh.

You might send those concerns in a letter att: Chief Instructor RTI, and a copy to Ministry of Transport / "Head-of-Motorcycle Testing Division" (whoever that is).
 
Mike - I dont think you are going to find too much online regarding it - because its a test! My advice is to stop worrying about what is on the test at the end of the weekend - and focus on the course and learning - and being smooth with- the operational skills of the motorcycle.
Focus on:
1) being nice and smooth on that bike with all your inputs and
2) keeping your head up and looking ahead.
THATTTTTT will be what you need!! Its not about 'passing a test' either - Its about learning a new skill properly and proficiently and being SAFE. All the things you require to pass the test are within the course you take anyway.... so focus on each task they give you throughout the weekend. (These courses all build and progress as they go).

Well the MTO test and criteria are online
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section8-0-0.shtml

And here is another test : ... no "suprises" here :

Each exercise / segment is clearly detailed with Performance Criteria.

Why isn't the same thing available for the MOST II M1->M2 ?

Mike
 
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OK guys just hold your horses here ... you're getting ahead of yourselves... There is no committee. There is one Examiner assigned each weekend. This examiner on-site is the final and only decision!! So calling any chiefs or directors of any schools will not reverse any test result. You could however speak to them (or the ministry) about concerns you had with the working condition of the motorcycles - or with what you feel is 'overcrowding' - but as far as test results the Examiner on-site is the final decision and they will be supported.

Crossing a line is actually deemed as a very serious error. So if that is involved with a test - I wouldnt consider it "aced". Its is heavily weighted for points because it could be an on-coming car or a guard rail. The student must demonstrate they are able to put the motorcycle where they intend to and have "control". If a line is crossed the student is demonstrating a lack of control. And then after the line is crossed, it now depends where the rider enters back into the testing area -which can then double the points. I am assuming that is what happened in the circumstance discussed above. Smoothness is not an actual scoring component on the test but when you are not smooth, the outcome is poor... and other things can then compound that. Stalls are a component and they multiply. 1 stall is 1 point, 2 stalls 3 points, 3 is 5...
 
I feel for you,I think the staff at RTI wants everyone to pass but wont pass a rider with poor abilites,Imagine if you dont stop at a solid white line and run into a stroller with a kid in it.Sorry you failed but keep trying and stop finding excuses for the fail.
 
mstram; Each exercise / segment is clearly detailed with [B said:
Performance Criteria.

[/B]Why isn't the same thing available for the MOST II M1->M2 ?

Mike


I feel your frustration ... sorry!!!
Well its not available because for the M1 exit test, organizations/schools can use the testing method of their choice (of course they previously submitted it to the MTO who then approves it). So its an individual organizational thing. The Most II test seems to be the method that schools tend to use .. but it is also approved on an individual basis by the MTO. I am aware that there are some very slight variations between schools/organizations in the scoring methods.
 
As someone who can feel your pain, I remember how frustrating the MSF course was. I took that course with zero experience on a motorcycle, never driven stick and just didn't understand how clutch worked. So I'm sure you could imagine my frustration every time I stalled the bike leaving first and had no idea why. Ok I'm going to rant a little here but maybe some of you can relate. I took the MSF course through a school,the class was very small which was great! However, I found the instructors were trying to rush through the course. As if they almost forgot what it was like to ride a motorcycle for the very first time, for example; I was getting a feel for the clutch and just as I was rocking back and forth on the bike, the instructors were on to the next part of the course. Out of the 10 students, 7/10 had already ridden a motorcycle, the 3 remaining (including myself) were brand new. As the class progressed, us 3 were still not comfortable. The 2 others I was with ended up low siding their bikes simply because the instructors throwing too much information too soon. Now the part I hated most about this, the instructors didn't even try to encourage the 2 or tell them to get back on the bike. Now I know what you're thinking, they may have been a danger to the class but no that wasn't the case. They were learning like any other new rider and most new riders drop their bike. They instead told and I quote "So motorcycling isn't for you..", at that point I had to grit my teeth and continue on with the course. Thankfully the other students were encouraging me the whole way or I would have probably hopped off the bike and left too. I ended up passing the test with and now own my second motorcycle. But the 2 others that left the course most likely will never hop on a motorcycle again due to that weekend.
 
Bagel,

When did you take your training ?

And what school was it ?

While it may be unfair to judge the entire school by a "couple of bad apples", it's equally unfair to prospective students if those instructors are still there, to "protect" that school.

How did the two students low slide ? Was it raining ?
 
Well its not available because for the M1 exit test, organizations/schools can use the testing method of their choice (of course they previously submitted it to the MTO who then approves it).

Do the student's in your course get any written information on the tests ?

Mike
 
Bagel,

When did you take your training ?

And what school was it ?

While it may be unfair to judge the entire school by a "couple of bad apples", it's equally unfair to prospective students if those instructors are still there, to "protect" that school.

How did the two students low slide ? Was it raining ?

They didn't really lowside, one stalled his bike as he was moving off the line and fell off to the side. The other I think was going around the curve and felt he was going too fast and panic braked and locked up his rear. They both stopped and I'm sure they both felt very embarrassed. Which is where the instructors should have came in and encouraged them to hop back on but they didn't. My advice for all you guys taking a course, RELAX! DON'T GET FRUSTRATED! Even if the majority of the class is wayyy ahead of you on the learning game, just remember you'll catch on- just takes seat time.
 
I feel for you,I think the staff at RTI wants everyone to pass but wont pass a rider with poor abilites,Imagine if you dont stop at a solid white line and run into a stroller with a kid in it.Sorry you failed but keep trying and stop finding excuses for the fail.

Where did I say I couldn't stop?
Learn to read carefully I said my tire went out the line in a deep right turn.
 

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