List myself as secondary rider ?

G

Ghostrider619

Well-known member
Hey guys, i bought a new bike its already in my name ( not plated ). I was thinking of telling my dad or mom to get M1 only and transferring the title of the bike to them then insure them as primary and myself as secondary. Would this result in lower insurance in total for me ? I thought it would cost me a bit cheaper this way. Pros cons ? Thank you.
 
sounds like insurance fraud.

Also the rate is still pegged on the riskiest rider..... if your listed as a second rider, you rate is gonna be higher regardless of who is the primary.
 
picard-facepalm2.jpg
 
What do you do when their m1 expires? If you are the primary, you must be listed as such. Dina is right, the insurance would be based on the highest risk rider, not the "primary" rider, so it wouldn't save you much anyway. What bike did you buy?

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OP, Google "material misrepresentation insurance" and read up. Not a good idea. And as mentioned won't save you much in the end anyways.

Iceman, 2014 gsx650f based on post history.
 
I was quoted above 180 per month for myself as primary, when I listed myself as secondary and parents as primary ( with M2 in this case ), the online quote gave me monthly payment of only $70 lol. I know some of my friends who have done this and they are paying a lot less. & I also don't understand how it would be insurance fraud. If it was a fraudulent act shouldn't they make the option for secondary riders not available at all (including cars insurance) ? :dontknow:. P.S how would insurance company find out if someone is primary or secondary rider, will they be stalking people around their house ?
 
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You're telling the insurance company you're the secondary driver which automatically means you're only supposed to be driving it occasionally - that's why it's at a reduced rate. In the case of a claim, particularly a large one, insurance companies will dig for info and if they discover that you're actually the one riding it 100% of the time, it's material misrepresentation.

As for how they find out...you'd be surprised what an investigator can dig up, be it from a car insurance company, EI, medical insurance, etc.

Here's a good write up from a claims investigator.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2otf8n/

Search for the term "material misrepresentation" and there's a section specifically relating to what you're suggesting. This guy retroactively cancels policies of people that try this, leaving them (or you) in the lurch for potentially millions of dollars.

Pay the $180 and ride knowing you're actually covered instead of trying to fool yourself into thinking your plan will work. Might get you through a roadside police interaction, but anything requiring a claim is going to get the fuzzy eyeball from the insurance company.
 
Ghostrider619 said:
I was quoted above 180 per month for myself as primary, when I listed myself as secondary and parents as primary ( with M2 in this case ), the online quote gave me monthly payment of only $70 lol. I know some of my friends who have done this and they are paying a lot less. & I also don't understand how it would be insurance fraud. If it was a fraudulent act shouldn't they make the option for secondary riders not available at all (including cars insurance) ? :dontknow:. P.S how would insurance company find out if someone is primary or secondary rider, will they be stalking people around their house ?
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Online quotes aren't worth jack. Get some numbers from an actual agent. Then report back.
 
Sorry to say, but they're all pretty much right. Please don't pay attention to online quotes. They're are usually highly inaccurate because they don't ask for the same information that we do, and sometimes clients apply coverages that don't apply to them.
 
Yeah, on-line quotes are a classic bait-and-switch type deal. Only when you talk to an actual person will you get a real figure.

It's a shame that this sport/endeavor/hobby/way of life is going to die with a wimper because all new riders are going to have to go through this.

But OP, insurance fraud and misrepresentation isn't the way to fix it. Riding a motorcycle is not a necessity nor is it a right. It's an enjoyable hobby. Unfortunately, decades of statistics and years of fraud and corporate greed have resulted in ****ed up rates for everyone, most notably young people looking to get into riding. If you can't wing the cost now it may be nature's way of telling you to shelve your riding plans until you're older or have more disposable income.
 
So, realistically, it IS possible to list yourself as a secondary on a motorcycle policy. Multiple noob riders have made this clear to us recently. But what I've gained from this is that it wont really be much cheaper, and if you actually ARE riding it 100% of the time as a secondary rider, you WILL get screwed.

SO, why do they even allow this in the first place? And if you were to "prove" that you are the occasional driver (and the "primary" is driving it just as much as you), would the policy be legit?
 
JP0160 said:
So, realistically, it IS possible to list yourself as a secondary on a motorcycle policy. Multiple noob riders have made this clear to us recently. But what I've gained from this is that it wont really be much cheaper, and if you actually ARE riding it 100% of the time as a secondary rider, you WILL get screwed.

SO, why do they even allow this in the first place? And if you were to "prove" that you are the occasional driver (and the "primary" is driving it just as much as you), would the policy be legit?
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It is completely legit. I am 42, say my son were 17 and had an m2, I can add him as a secondary and let him ride my bike 1 or 2 times a week. That is legit. Allowing a secondary driver to operate the bike full time with the primary only using it occasionally is not legit.
Getting your parents to write their m1 so you can pretend to be a secondary while they will NEVER ride, is not legit.


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I guess the good part of the situation, is that you can trust your parents with the nefarious scheme.

If you were to go about this though, you should have done it differently. They should have gotten their M1 first, which you should have paid for of course. Then they purchase the bike, which you pay for, you buy them insurance, and they ride it for a while. Then you get your M1 and buy your own insurance. Then later on, once you're a big boy, you can buy your own bike and insurance.
 
my friend works for insurance claims and he's busted a 18 year old doing this last year.
Basically he went snooping into his instagram pages and discovered that the "occasional rider" was vlogging on a daily basis on a 2012 GSX-R 1000 registered as a primary to a 67 year old female...
 
dina said:
discovered that the "occasional rider" was vlogging on a daily basis on a 2012 GSX-R 1000 registered as a primary to a 67 year old female...
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Yes, because the typical market/rider for a 1000CC race bike is nearly 70 year old females. That would NEVER attract any scrutiny.

I was going to say, if you're going to do something stupid at least be smart about it, but I guess that's a bit of an oxymoron.
 
I have two bikes and my wife is a licensed rider also. In reality I am the 'primary rider' of both bikes (she barely ever rides, and only one of the bikes if she does) but every insurance co I've talked to says one of us automatically has to be primary on each. Doesn't make much sense to me. I'm straight up with them and tell them the truth.

Also, the salesperson at one co actually suggested to me I could tell them I only ride 1500km a year and my rate would be substantially lower. I probably do 3x that so I figured that would be a bad idea if I ever got in accident.
 
plutoz said:
I have two bikes and my wife is a licensed rider also. In reality I am the 'primary rider' of both bikes (she barely ever rides, and only one of the bikes if she does) but every insurance co I've talked to says one of us automatically has to be primary on each. Doesn't make much sense to me. I'm straight up with them and tell them the truth
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It goes my the numnber of people licenced to drive that class of vehicle.

I have 3 vehicles, 2 cars and a pickup. Right now I'm listed as primary on 2 vehicles and my wife is listed as primary on the third because there's only the 2 of us with full licences, and both my kids only have G1's which doesn't count towards anything insurance-wise. When one of my kids gets their licence they MUST be listed as primary on one of the vehicles (At huge $$$) as you cannot list them as occasional. Three vehicles, three licenced drivers, the insurance companies know what's up. This is one of the reasons the pickup is for sale.
 
JP0160 said:
SO, why do they even allow this in the first place? And if you were to "prove" that you are the occasional driver (and the "primary" is driving it just as much as you), would the policy be legit?
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What do you mean by this? I have 1 bike that I ride mostly, but my wife also has her M and would like to have access to take it out on a nice day - you're saying they shouldn't allow this?

It would still be legit even if she rode the bike as much as I did - but not if she rode 10x as much as I did. Even if she rode it more than me, there wouldn't be a reliable way for insurance companies to prove it; its a legal loophole based on an established "honor system" that many people abuse, and based on how ruthless and cutthroat an insurance company can be; I can't say that I would judge anyone negatively for using this loophole to their advantage.
 
Insurers allow it because some people actually do this. As shown by the above poster he rides the bike the majority of the time, and his wife "occasionally" rides the bike(s). What this is NOT meant to cover is scenarios such as the OP was proposing, Which is fraud, in that he was going to lie to the insurer in hopes of getting lower rate.

It is obvious in his situation that his parents were NEVER going to ride the bike. What he failed to take into account, is that the M1 would only last 90 days, at which point the parent would have to go for their M2, or remove the insurance. Also insurers will "investigate" if they suspect anything in the least. People post all kinds of crap to social media. If it is a serious claim, they have been known to talk to friends/neighbors, coworkers, teachers, etc. If a neighbor says yep I see little Johnny ride the bike everyday but I have never seen the dad on the bike, bam claim denied. Insurers have "seen" every scheme many many times.

I did, for a short time do side work doing insurance investigations for workplace injury claims, we got VERY resourceful in some of the investigative techniques we employed. Many claimants ended up paying back insurance payouts.

Obviously if a person is legitimately an occasional rider the policy would be legit, but that is rarely the case with a 20 year kid and a 600 SS that they bought before they got insurance quotes. There is a reason when you call for a new policy they ask if there are ANY other licenced riders/drivers in the household.

JP0160 said:
So, realistically, it IS possible to list yourself as a secondary on a motorcycle policy. Multiple noob riders have made this clear to us recently. But what I've gained from this is that it wont really be much cheaper, and if you actually ARE riding it 100% of the time as a secondary rider, you WILL get screwed.

SO, why do they even allow this in the first place? And if you were to "prove" that you are the occasional driver (and the "primary" is driving it just as much as you), would the policy be legit?
Click to expand...
 
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