LIGHTNING LS-218 - thoughts? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

LIGHTNING LS-218 - thoughts?

Do you like electric superbikes?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Undecided


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Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
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KWDRZ

Well-known member
The whole "but where did the energy come from" argument is tired. This is just the tesla conversation all over again but for bikes.

The real argument lies in the production of the actual batteries. The materials they use and the process to manufacturer.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
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Given the life span of batteries and that they are recycled does not cut it either. There is a ton of lithium about ...we're heading to the biggest lithium area on the planet ( Atacama Desert ) and like all technology there is some environmental cost but they are a solveable problem if the companies stop using ground water ....and they are. Pressure from EV car manufacturers particularly in Europe will bring that about and the major suppliers of lithium are onside as they have a healthy and growing business model. They are moving to solar desalination for the fresh water they need instead of mining ground water reserves and hurting the local supply.


In Ontario or Quebec where electricity is low or no carbon ...the savings in emissions are close to 100% over an ICE vehicle as the batteries are good for minimum 8 years and then can be rebuilt. So many other benefits as well for EV cars.. not yet so clear on motorcycles tho eBikes are big time good for congested cities. Mcycles not the problem.
 

KLR Junkie

Active member
From the Government of Canada's web site:

WARNING, THIS POST IS COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC
Also, I'm not ranting at any GTAM members here. I do appreciate that Lightcycle went and found a reference, even if I strongly disagree with the content of said reference.

I just love how our governments measure CO2 emissions from the energy sector by completely ignoring life-cycle emissions. Not all emissions come from the smokestack.

Nuclear is "non-emitting"? What about the mining, processing and transport of uranium. What about the emission of hot water from non-contact cooling systems (which causes increased evaporation of water vapour, the most common GHG). How about the emissions associated with building the enormous facility and then tearing it down again 40 years later. Let's not forget to include the emissions associated with maintaining a nuclear waste stockpile for the foreseeable future.

When you account for the biological decomposition of plant matter submerged by damming for hydroelectric power plants, as well as the reduction in CO2 absorptive capacity from flooding natural areas, and the emissions associated with construction and maintenance, hydroelectric power can have a carbon footprint nearly as significant as natural gas. [Scherer, Laura & Pfister, Stephan. (2016). Hydropower's Biogenic Carbon Footprint. PLoS ONE. 11. e0161947. 10.1371/journal.pone.0161947].

We're blessed with an electrical generation system that has relatively low CO2e emissions compared with some nations, and EVs in general are quite a bit better than ICE vehicles regarding life-cycle CO2e emissions. I just get annoyed when I see an official organisation like the NEB putting out garbage like that link, using technicalities like "direct emissions" to mislead the public.

Production of lithium is another topic for another rant :)

Anyway, rant is over. Back to the topic at hand, my abiding memory of my short ride on a Zero was the torque. If that's the future of riding then I can't wait til it gets here.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
The remaining 9% is primarily from natural gas
Closing our coal stations remains one of the world’s largest actions to combat climate change. In the absence of coal, gas-fired power generation stepped up to play the ever-important role of ensuring system reliability with its own unique set of benefits.
  • Flexibility — These stations can remain unfueled on standby for long periods of time yet be ready to quickly spring into action to help meet any spikes in Ontario’s energy demand.
  • Enabling renewables — Gas also helps enable other important renewable energy sources like wind and solar which are intermittent sources that require backup.
I think you'll find that this is peak reserve power which is very rarely in use. Capacity does not mean it's in use.

from all sources
Ontario's energy demand in 2019 was 135.1 TWh,
in 2018 the gas gens used 0.7 tw. ...seems I recall because of a cool summer there was no use at all last year. Seems 99% low carbon is a fair.

Anyways - any fossil fuel powerplant is far more efficient than an ICE vehicle and natural gas in particular is very efficient.

Some very cool battery tech in the works as well but weight is always an issue as is recharge time.
 

OSIRIS_001

Well-known member
Site Supporter
okay - throwing another wrench into the thinking here - considering the next 4 yrs, this market is expected to grow at a CAGR of over 35%and the market growth rate projected to increase by 28,123 units over the same period (reference: COMTEX_358159295/2598/2019-11-29)

points to key drivers for this market being:

•Development of hubless electric motorcycles
•Emerging trend of all-electric motorcycle racing
•Major motorcycle OEMs venturing into the electric motorcycle market

this is a time-game for sure, and as the supporting charging stations come to be more available as part of planned urban & transportation grids and retail markets, i think we all will be having one, or telling our kids we never thought the day would come.
 

El_Destructo

Active member
Ummm last time I checked Ontario is 99% zero carbon for electricity
......
Ummm... it might be now. I'l take your word for it !. But do we have the ability to provide charging power if everyone shifts to electric vehicles. I've seen the plug ins at parking garages. What if there is a big shift that way & most or even half of drivers/riders want to plug in & charge.
With resistance to wind generating from people who live near them & the nature crowd who say it's bad for migratory birds etc., Ford seemingly (to me anyway) reluctant to support anything to do with solar, what are we going to use. Is there enough hydro generation to fill in ?. Doesn't seem to be that long ago we had "brown outs" in the summer when everyone turned on their AC. I think if we all plug in our cars & bikes... perhaps there might be shortages again.

If we have so much electricity to spare, why is it always getting more expensive ?. How will the price be affected by the increased demand?.
Is it possible that we might have to resort to less clean generating methods to fill the demand of all electric transport. ?. If not carbon, perhaps nuclear or something else. Perhaps we can hook up to all the stationary bicycles in gyms to fill the void ?.

The point of my post was... I don't think everyone realizes when they plug in an electric device the power had to be generated by something.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Well, not quite, there is a fair bit of natural gas in the mix, and that's going to go up when Pickering Nuclear closes without a replacement and with the current provincial government's disdain for wind and solar. It'll still be about half nuclear and a quarter hydroelectric, in rough numbers.
But certainly not any coal, as was suggested above.

This is a common anti-EV argument across much of the USA where coal is still used widely for power generation - "Your EV is just powered by coal, lol lol" when in reality it's been shown to still be more efficient vs internal combustion.

But that's another argument.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
But do we have the ability to provide charging power if everyone shifts to electric vehicles. I've seen the plug ins at parking garages.
You make the assumption there is a "void". A big fleet of EV vehicles is actually a very useful energy pool for peak load. It also absorbs the power from renewables, especially wind that often is not required. It does require grid upgrades.

Small nuclear is well on the way mid 20s and easy enough to add to an existing site.

An illustration shows a NuScale Power module on a truck. NuScale is one of the small modular reactor companies whose designs are going through pre-licensing approval with Canada's nuclear regulator. Many are designed to be small enough to transport by truck or by shipping container. (NuScale Power)
Renewables will continue to grow which is one point in their favour despite the idiot running Ontario at the moment. Always the problem with renewables is storage.

Quebec has new hydro coming on but also is taking an innovative approach to leveling demand
Hydro-Québec already supplies four per cent of Ontario’s electricity and 25 per cent of Vermont’s. In 2016 and 2017, Vermont, Massachusetts and New York state adopted specific measures to force their energy suppliers to include renewable energies in their offer. Hydro-Québec could go a long way to meeting these needs.
Quebec’s hydroelectricity, which is 99.8 per cent renewable, is the cheapest, greenest source of renewable energy on the continent. Everyone stands to gain if Quebecers learn to use it more wisely.
 

Trials

Well-known member
What's a hubless electric motorcycle? sounds like something on Star Trek.
 

OSIRIS_001

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Tech already in production ...

1581689376416.png

To obtain high-performance with minimal power loss, electric motorcycle manufacturers are launching a new design wherein the motor is on the wheel rim, eliminating the hub from the wheel. Furthermore, the electric motor is integrated into the fairly large frame of the rim, allowing high power generation. The power generated is further transferred through electric cables housed near the rear wheel rim.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
and of course in theory can be both wheels.... 🤪 tho I would guess torque effect on the handling would be wild
Regenerative braking would help range and reduce brake wear like a Tesla.
 
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Trials

Well-known member
Tech already in production ...

View attachment 41808

To obtain high-performance with minimal power loss, electric motorcycle manufacturers are launching a new design wherein the motor is on the wheel rim, eliminating the hub from the wheel. Furthermore, the electric motor is integrated into the fairly large frame of the rim, allowing high power generation. The power generated is further transferred through electric cables housed near the rear wheel rim.
Does it come as a little tiny one with 2 wheel drive? :cool:
now the front wheel does really look wrong, are they expecting it to go ultra fast or be ultra heavy?
and whats with the jumper cables? :unsure: actually the whole frame is just wrong
ew, it has forward pegs lol
 
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Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Does it come as a little tiny one with 2 wheel drive? :cool:
now the front wheel does really look wrong, are they expecting it to go ultra fast or be ultra heavy?
and whats with the jumper cables? :unsure: actually the whole frame is just wrong
ew, it has forward pegs lol
How is the frame 'wrong'?
 

Trials

Well-known member
How is the frame 'wrong'?
Look what it has for a frame connection between the swingarm pivot and the top shock mount :/ that's a tubular joke, that part should be one of the strongest cast aluminum sub assemblies on the bike not an afterthought to mount a saddle and riders
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Look what it has for a frame connection between the swingarm pivot and the top shock mount :/ that's a tubular joke, that part should be one of the strongest cast aluminum sub assemblies on the bike not an afterthought to mount a saddle and riders
I mean, do we even know what the material content is to start?

Outside of that don't be trapped in your paradigm of what a bike design 'should be'. I expect we'll see some radical stuff now that it's not hampered by an ice.

*Cough cybertruck*
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Look what it has for a frame connection between the swingarm pivot and the top shock mount :/ that's a tubular joke, that part should be one of the strongest cast aluminum sub assemblies on the bike not an afterthought to mount a saddle and riders
Remember that as we move away from internal combustion engines and all the airflow that is necessary around said engine, cooling system, etc etc....having a battery instead means that the battery will probably become part of the structure of motorcycles moving forward. That means that what we all consider a "standard" frame design today out of generally necessity to fit around an engine won't necessarily be reality in the not too distant future.
 

OSIRIS_001

Well-known member
Site Supporter
word ...

the engineering problems around a new propulsive source combined with available power, torque, and tensile demands from a linear band present new requirements for a 'right-sized' frame - and agree it would not be well served to continue what was done for the legacy power source.

on a side note ... segway's is out now ... different setup ... but looks way more conventional:

1581734544919.png

1581734560218.png

 

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