Lien

  • Thread starter Thread starter igormon
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igormon

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Ok, Here is a friendly reminder to any new riders to take the simple step of getting a UVIP before purchasing and never trusting ANYONE, be careful and first and foremost protect yourself.

Yes it is obvious, yes it is smart and yes we all do stupid things in the heat of the moment. I did just that, I trusted a guy and bought a bike without any UVIP. He told me all I need is transfer of ownership and safety, said he did not have a UVIP when he got the bike so I'm good to go.

Guess what? Bike has a Lien on it from the original owner, bike transferred owners two times already.

I found the original owner, sent a message regarding the Lien if it was paid off etc with no response. It appears from his FB that he has a new bike, possibly a Kawi 650? After market exhaust the works.... I was hoping given all of this its simply a Lien that was not removed but the bank wont tell me anything and him not responding I am beginning to assume the worst.

Its as if there are more laws protecting the seller than the buyer unfortunately if you don't follow the common sense path and get that UVIP!!

This was my first bike, worked my *** off for the money to pay for it and unfortunately was naive enough to trust someone to just snatch it out of my hands...

What are my choices? Well it appears taking the guy I bought it from to court would be the only step, he of course spent all the money on bills in about three days....Unless I can get the Lien taken off somehow I don't have a choice. I am not riding this year.

Be smart. Be safe. Don't let the garbage of our society ruin something you love. If anyone has any experience in this department or advice please give. At the least hopefully this post along with others similar to it will help protect the honest ones.

Thanks..
 
So you mean the bank enforces the lien but won't tell you anything about it? That's stupid, how are you supposed to pay then? Maybe the lien is for $300 bucks, ask around and pay it.
 
Pegassus said:
So you mean the bank enforces the lien but won't tell you anything about it? That's stupid, how are you supposed to pay then? Maybe the lien is for $300 bucks, ask around and pay it.
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Well after spending a good 45 minutes being transferred back and fourth between automated messages asking me for a client card number and account number I was just told that I had to get the person the lien is registered under to request it be removed or to inquire about it. They wouldn't provide any information, how much, if there was still even a Lien there... nothing, didn't even look into it.

This is GE MONEY btw.
 
I've been in the exact same situation and was able to resolve it. PM me if you need any advice.
 
happened to me with a car i bought. i went to the bank and they wouldnt tell me anything about it. the guy at the bank told me banks dont like name changes on anything with a lien. so he told me if it changed names a couple times its probably not an active lien and not to worry about it. its been about 10 years now and the car is still around. just contact the bank that the lien is under and see what they tell you
 
Try to contact the original owner again, maybe phone (Canada 411 if #unknown) and try to find out more info regarding this lien. Good Luck!
 
Sucks, good luck. Let us know how it turns out!
 
That happen to me man, I was told all I need is the ownership.. I ended up getting the plate portion, and had to go through the trouble of doing paperwork to get ownership, uvip, etc - while the guy went to Scotland. After they have your money, they are not so listening.. Should of took it more slowly, and got everything before paying him. Good luck on your transfer.
 
What about this one?

Owner is telling me that is selling everything to move back to Europe. Bike is in great shape but the UVIP shows that it still has a lien... owner claims the lien is $3,200 and change.
Owner is showing me a bank receipt that indicates that the total amount has been payed back to the HSBC, the lien holder, last week.

Is the receipt enough to ensure the lien is not hanging over my head?
Since I have the registration lien #, I was planning to call HSBC on Tuesday, but as posted above, they may not provide any info to me (a third party).

Do I have any options?
Has anyone searched online using http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_business/access_now/STEL01_086166.html ?
 
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UVIP doesn't always give enough information.

search for lien information here:
http://www.ppsa.ca/ppsaca/

We had a similar instance with a dealership selling my hubby and I a bike that seemed to have a lien on it. Sometimes the bank doesn't follow thru with paperwork to clear the lien record. Use above Site to figure out which bank, and go from there. Good luck!
 
Orangepeel said:
UVIP doesn't always give enough information.

search for lien information here:
http://www.ppsa.ca/ppsaca/

We had a similar instance with a dealership selling my hubby and I a bike that seemed to have a lien on it. Sometimes the bank doesn't follow thru with paperwork to clear the lien record. Use above Site to figure out which bank, and go from there. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Well the UVIP tells me the secured part is GE MONEY. What other information can this PPSA search provide?

@MarcosSantiago

I would get a Lien release which HSBC needs to send out, its basically a form stating the Lien is released. I personally after this would not trust solely a receipt.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
What about this one?

Owner is telling me that is selling everything to move back to Europe. Bike is in great shape but the UVIP shows that it still has a lien... owner claims the lien is $3,200 and change.
Owner is showing me a bank receipt that indicates that the total amount has been payed back to the HSBC, the lien holder, last week.

Is the receipt enough to ensure the lien is not hanging over my head?
Since I have the registration lien #, I was planning to call HSBC on Tuesday, but as posted above, they may not provide any info to me (a third party).

Do I have any options?
Has anyone searched online using http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_business/access_now/STEL01_086166.html ?
Click to expand...


Just get the UVIP again. if he did pay it, it should show the bike has no lien. That's what happened to me when I purchased my bike. Owner had a lien, payed it off, a couple of days later showed me the UVIP again and all was good.
 
AGMZ said:
Just get the UVIP again. if he did pay it, it should show the bike has no lien. That's what happened to me when I purchased my bike. Owner had a lien, payed it off, a couple of days later showed me the UVIP again and all was good.
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Payment was done on Thursday Aug 30, and I saw the UVIP and bike on Friday (day before yesterday). Does it really take only a couple of days to get an updated lien status on the UVIP?

Many years ago (in 2007 when I got a car with a lien) an MTO employee told me that UVIPs should not be trusted as they may take months to update... most of the time still showing a lien even when it was paid already, just like Orangepeel
user-online.png
posted above...

How long ago did you have that experience (getting the UVIP for a second time, lien status already updated)?
 
I didn't think one could get a transfer without a UVIP.

Re the banks not divulging info, they are tied into a contract with someone else. If your name isn't on the contract they can't talk to you. My wife can't even get my bank info.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
Payment was done on Thursday Aug 30, and I saw the UVIP and bike on Friday (day before yesterday). Does it really take only a couple of days to get an updated lien status on the UVIP?

Many years ago (in 2007 when I got a car with a lien) an MTO employee told me that UVIPs should not be trusted as they may take months to update... most of the time still showing a lien even when it was paid already, just like Orangepeel
user-online.png
posted above...

How long ago did you have that experience (getting the UVIP for a second time, lien status already updated)?
Click to expand...

I bought my bike at the beginning of May. He paid off the lien on a Monday, and by Thursday the lien was updated. According to the clerk at the Service Ontario i went to, I was lucky it updated so fast.
 
Contact the lender on the UVIP, i.e. bank. They should tell you if they are still tied up with the loan/if it's been paid off/still monies owing.

This is good to read too: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/used.shtml#liens

Note the part about where the lender is responsible for clearing the lien info:

[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]The debt is paid and the lender has not cleared it
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
  • The lender must register a clearance within 30 days
  • If the lender has not registered a clearance, you can write a notice to the lender requiring them to pay you - $500 and any damages resulting from not clearing the debt
  • The Ministry of Government Services, Personal Property Security Branch removes a clearance registration within 60 days
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

igormon said:
Well the UVIP tells me the secured part is GE MONEY. What other information can this PPSA search provide?

@MarcosSantiago

I would get a Lien release which HSBC needs to send out, its basically a form stating the Lien is released. I personally after this would not trust solely a receipt.
Click to expand...
 
You are not doing it right if you cant get that info, either you talked to the wrong person or just didnt handle the conversation correctly and got the run around. I cleared a lien that was from 5 years before I transferred the bike into my name. I didnt know anything about the person that had the lien, all I knew was the lender and the guys name that took the loan. I was still able to clear the lien, they tired to tell me they would do it through mail and it could take weeks, but I busted the $500 MTO fine thing on them. And they did it online right away, and it was cleared within 24hrs...
 
The whole lien system is messed up. Someone can buy a UVIP, register a lien and then sell the bike to you. There are many cases of people getting ****ed over by this.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
What about this one?

Owner is telling me that is selling everything to move back to Europe. Bike is in great shape but the UVIP shows that it still has a lien... owner claims the lien is $3,200 and change.
Owner is showing me a bank receipt that indicates that the total amount has been payed back to the HSBC, the lien holder, last week.

Is the receipt enough to ensure the lien is not hanging over my head?
Since I have the registration lien #, I was planning to call HSBC on Tuesday, but as posted above, they may not provide any info to me (a third party).

Do I have any options?
Has anyone searched online using http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_business/access_now/STEL01_086166.html ?
Click to expand...

I had the same issue with National Bank - Lien holders have a statutory obligation to remove liens where the money has already been paid within a certain time frame, if they don't they are required to pay a penalty plus any costs incurred by the owner for having to deal with the improper registration of the lien.

In my case the bank ended up having to compensate me because I lost a sale trying to sell my bike, when they failed to lift the lien. This was after I chased then about it and was provided with an assurance that it would be removed from title in six weeks. I checked a year later - the lien was still registered.
 
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Orangepeel said:
Contact the lender on the UVIP, i.e. bank. They should tell you if they are still tied up with the loan/if it's been paid off/still monies owing.
...
Click to expand...

I did it once before, but now it is different

As I posted above

MarcosSantiago said:
Many years ago (in 2007 when I got a car with a lien) an MTO employee told me that UVIPs should not be trusted as they may take months to update... most of the time still showing a lien even when it was paid already, just like Orangepeel posted above...
Click to expand...

The guy who sold me the car was working for Yamaha Canada in a good paying management job. He was not moving out of the country. And the car was under Toyota finance. Toyota Financial Services provided exceptional service, and release the letter of clearance very quickly.

This is a bit different: The owner of the bike is unemployed, and going back to Europe - he provided a copy of the bank receipt showing payment, as well as the initial letter from HSBC showing lien registration number, lien registration date, and a few other details.

So thank you all, it makes sense to get the HSBC clearance letter before moving forward... I hope they fax it to me...
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