License Plate Not Visible - WTH? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

License Plate Not Visible - WTH?

Neil_V said:
Got a small hassle in a ride program the other night. My plate is directly under my taillight on an angle of about 15 degrees (bottom forward) and completely visible to camera's etc.

First he tried saying
"Your plate cannot be on any angle".

I asked him to cite the section HTA which states as much. He replied
"Look I'm just letting you know; anyway, it has to further back than any of the body work".

I again asked him where exactly in the HTA I would find that. He again stated
"I'm just telling you I could write you a ticket. Bend it back"

I replied "But it's completely visible; zero obstruction; exactly as required by the HTA", to which I received a ridiculously flippant "Have a good night" and I was on my way :rolleyes:
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More "plate" awareness after the antics from the other weekend.
 
Watch out how these tickets are viewed by insurance companies.

Theres a debate going on if its a moving violation or not.. Regardless, it is comparable to tint laws on autos, and I know people that have indeed had rates increased ( small ones) due to tint tickets ( called in for clarification etc.). Different insurance companies view and rate tickets differently of course.
 
Buy the ones that goes on the stock location but you can rotate it

This is why i bought the TST ones as you can rotate them back if you want

[video]https://youtu.be/fs_X7y600fg?t=13m50s[/video]
 
I think a more appropriate response from the police is a Christmas blitz, that would teach us.

Most squids are out of the streets right about now, serious riders stay and ride in cold weather but we for the most part understand how to keep our bikes legal or at least how to not make ourselves a target.

Their Blitz in October if true is just a perception move to put a check mark on the "we did something" column even if that something does not fix any issue.

Typical police BS.
 
MLadin said:
Make certain you order undertail kit that will fit Ontario plate size. Many don't (like Yoshimura). They're all priced ridiculous and will still get you pulled over because you just gave the popo a reason to pull you over. Anything other than stock gives them reason to investigate you, crackdowns or not. Keep the stock mudflap and shorten it a bit if it's ridiculously large (like Honda CBR's). Keeping the stock mudflap has had me pulled over zero times.
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I have a yosh and it fits without modification.
 
redridernl said:
I have a yosh and it fits without modification.
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Some don't fit our plates, only American plates. There's a thread on here on which one's don't fit our plates.. Check plate dimensions before ordering.

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Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
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For those of you internet lawyers squealing "illegal", how so? My plate is in a similar location (it's been like that for the past 8 years), and when you stand behind the bike, at any distance, you can clearly see the numbers on the plate (including from the vantage point of a trailing vehicle). Which part of this traffic act are you assuming it contravenes:

"Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7)."
- Highway Traffic Act R.S.O. 1990, c. H-8, Section 13
​
 
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"and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by ... any part of the vehicle"

The mounting locations underneath the rear bodywork and forward/above the rear wheel will be obscured by the rear bodywork when viewed from behind/above at a sufficient angle (e.g. at the angle that the 407 cameras use).

They may also be obscured by passenger footpeg brackets, muffler, rear wheel, "hugger" fenders, etc depending on the angle selected for viewing.

By saying "shall not be obscured", and because they didn't put numbers to what "not be obscured" means, that could mean from ANY height and ANY angle and in ANY combination of height and angle (and in any position of the suspension travel!), from straight back to 90 degrees right to 90 degrees left and from ant's-eye-view to bird's-eye-view. If from any viewing point in that hemisphere, the only thing that is ever limiting the view of the license plate becomes the fact that you are viewing it edge-on, then you can truly say it is "not obscured". If there's anywhere in that hemisphere from which even a part of the license plate is partly blocked, then there's an argument that it is not "plainly visible at all times" because it is "obstructed by ... any part of the vehicle".

And, yes, you're going to find that the stock license plate lamp, at a minimum, is going to at some point in that hemisphere, partially obstruct viewing the license plate, because of necessity, it has to be mounted further back than the plane of the license plate in order to be able to cast any illumination on it. BUT ... That license plate lamp was supplied by the vehicle manufacturer who declares compliance with CMVSS for that vehicle.

And, yes, you could very well find that on certain SUVs that have a spare tire mounted on the back and the license plate mounted someplace on the tailgate or the bumper, that from certain angles in that hemisphere of view, the spare tire carrier blocks viewing the license plate. BUT ... that vehicle, complete with that license plate location and that spare tire carrier, was supplied by the vehicle manufacturer who declares compliance with CMVSS.

And, yes, if that cop was riding a H-D cop bike with a top luggage case ... as shown earlier, that top luggage case blocks viewing of the license plate from behind/above. Guess what, that license plate location with that top luggage case was supplied by the vehicle manufacturer who declares compliance with CMVSS.

You, as a vehicle owner, are not expected to have to rectify deficiencies (as far as compliance with the vaguely-written HTA requirements are worded) with how the original vehicle manufacturer built the vehicle.

But if you created those deficiencies on your own ...
 
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sundin4prez said:
Watch out how these tickets are viewed by insurance companies.

Theres a debate going on if its a moving violation or not.. Regardless, it is comparable to tint laws on autos, and I know people that have indeed had rates increased ( small ones) due to tint tickets ( called in for clarification etc.). Different insurance companies view and rate tickets differently of course.
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more info?
 
dr_sarcasm said:
For those of you internet lawyers squealing "illegal", how so?
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lol

that's the way to be asking legitimate questions,

i see plenty of good info,

perhaps re-read & be more specific
 
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the plate thing is for them to have a legal reason to stop and check...the police know that at least 50% of sport bike riders in the GTA do NOT have proper insurance.
 
-D- said:
the plate thing is for them to have a legal reason to stop and check...the police know that at least 50% of sport bike riders in the GTA do NOT have proper insurance.
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No reason required. The police can pull you over any time without needing a reason.
 
If you get a copper who knows his business, your ticket will cite Ont Reg 628. Then you'll get a chance to make argument to the prosecutor and judge regarding what constitutes the rear of the vehicle. I've read that section 3 (cars - front/rear) is used for car drivers moving their front plate to the windshield.

9 (4) The number plate for a motorcycle, motor assisted bicycle or trailer shall be attached to and exposed in a conspicuous position on the rear of the vehicle. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 628, s. 9 (4).

 
dr_sarcasm said:
For those of you internet lawyers squealing "illegal", how so? My plate is in a similar location (it's been like that for the past 8 years), and when you stand behind the bike, at any distance, you can clearly see the numbers on the plate (including from the vantage point of a trailing vehicle). Which part of this traffic act are you assuming it contravenes:

"Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7)."
- Highway Traffic Act R.S.O. 1990, c. H-8, Section 13
​
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And it can be seen by red light cameras and 407ETR cameras? It's on the rear of the vehicle, not tucked up over the rear tire? It's vertical, rather than being canted at a significant angle?
 
Rob MacLennan said:
And it can be seen by red light cameras and 407ETR cameras? It's on the rear of the vehicle, not tucked up over the rear tire? It's vertical, rather than being canted at a significant angle?
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Stop bringing reason into this thread.
 
Here's a good article on why this is true (but maybe not technically correctly worded)

https://criminaltriallawyers.ca/?q=know-your-rights

Unlike other situations, the police do not need grounds to believe that your licence, insurance or registration documents are not up to date in order to pull you over to investigate these issues. The rationale for this is that driving is not a right, but a privilege, and the power for a stop of this kind comes from the Highway Traffic Act.
 
FLSTC said:
Here's a good article on why this is true (but maybe not technically correctly worded)

https://criminaltriallawyers.ca/?q=know-your-rights

Unlike other situations, the police do not need grounds to believe that your licence, insurance or registration documents are not up to date in order to pull you over to investigate these issues. The rationale for this is that driving is not a right, but a privilege, and the power for a stop of this kind comes from the Highway Traffic Act.
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Absolutely true, just keep them in check when/if they do. Their mandate cannot go beyond the above without reasonable grounds; so no, I will not get out of the car; no, my passengers will not identify themselves; no, I will not tell you where I'm headed or where I've been. Sorry, here's my paper work, you'll find it's in order. This applies to RIDE checks as well.
 
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I was stopped once by the police driving, I wasn't speeding, my stickers were not expired, I didn't go through a red light or stop sign or did anything wrong. When he approached me and asked for my license and insurance I asked the reason why he stopped me, he said no reason, I asked can I go then, he said yes.
 
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