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Left Lane Loafers - Watch This

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A lot of it has to do with the reality that their drivers are far superior to North American drivers in many categories including training, resulting skill, and courteousness.

The lack of all 3 of the above here is a primary causative for the creation of traffic jams, as well as accidents.
 
PrivatePilot said:
A lot of it has to do with the reality that their drivers are far superior to North American drivers in many categories including training, resulting skill, and courteousness.

The lack of all 3 of the above here is a primary causative for the creation of traffic jams, as well as accidents.
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Hmmm, maybe training, skill and courteousness depends on where you are. I've worked all over Europe, driven every country on the continent. Try driving in snow anywhere in continental Europe. Try finding courtesy in Italy or France. The best driver's I've seen in rural Scotland and Ireland are driving donkey carts.
 
There is actually very little to no speed enforcement done alone the 400 series highways, (except 407), in the GTA. It is due to an issue of officer safety. The shoulders simply aren't, (in many places), too narrow, to make a traffic stop safe. That is why you NEVER see radar traps set up long the 401. in the GTA proper from about 410 - Oshawa.

Blackfin said:
All fine and dandy but Kerry needs to talk to his fellow officers about random and arbitrary speed enforcement that makes people at the front of the queue afraid to speed up to the point they can move over and/or just go with the flow of traffic.
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As it happens I was on the 401 westbound in Oshawa yesterday afternoon. As usual on a Saturday it was congested, this time because of an accident (rear-ender). There was no speed advantage to be had (all lanes were going 90-100 kph) in the left lane but that didn't stop people from crowding in and tailgating, with a line of 6-10 cars leaving less than a car length between them. There was on particularly aggressive little puke (young guy - saw him as he passed) who was really close after weaving in and out. I decided the situation was a disaster, or at least a clusterf^%k in the making and moved over to exit at Stevenson. As I exited, I saw a cloud of grey smoke as the line all locked their brakes and many ran into each other.

It seems to me that tailgating is the common practice now. Some guy piddling in the "fast" lane? Tailgate him. Somebody making a slow right turn on a green? Climb up his arse. A guy cruising in the right lane at 100 kph pulling a trailer? Get close behind him while you wait for a gap to pass. Traffic congestion? Tighten up, "so that SOB can't get ahead of me".

Sorry, but I've seen transport trucks doing all the above as well. Even experienced truck drivers are susceptible to believing their skills are so superior to others that they can take such risks without consequence EVER. Obviously, truck drivers are also under the pressure of (unrealistic) delivery times, lateness penalties and lost wages.

For all the talk by the cops about road-safety blitzes and all the other finger waving, I rarely see a cruiser moving on the 401. Sure, lots of them stopped or parked but rarely moving. And I've seen them ignore the whole following too close issue more time than I can count.

Like others mentioned I think the 407 should be made a Toronto bypass for transports. As part of the license fees they should get a yearly pass for a reasonable, fixed rate in the interest of reducing congestion at least a little. Out of province trucks also get a break. The government can do it through legislation like they did with the green energy act.

Perhaps the idea of lateness penalties for deliveries should be against the law. In talking to drivers I've heard stories about astronomical penalties and hours-long waits to be unloaded if you miss your time. It's not fair to the drivers or the companies and may contribute to driver fatigue and other issues.

As for comparisons to European cities, you've got to remember that many of them were levelled 70 or so years ago so they were able to rebuild while making rapid transit a priority. Also remember that it's a very different culture where small, local shops cater to customers who live in small apartments within walking distance and who pay a premium for what they buy. It's just a different place.

Sorry for the long post. It's raining and I had planned to go riding.
 
xrljoel said:
407 should be made a Toronto bypass for transports. As part of the license fees they should get a yearly pass for a reasonable, fixed rate in the interest of reducing congestion at least a little. Out of province trucks also get a break. The government can do it through legislation like they did with the green energy act.
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You were quite accurate with your comparison to the green energy act. It will be amazing how much public money is lit on fire to accomplish so little. The consortium will still want their money (say $200/trip), the truckers will want to pay a reasonable rate (say $1000/yr) so the public purse will pick up the difference (probably ~$50,000/yr/truck). Yup, just like the GEA.
 
I like the idea of the 407 being used as a truck bypass of the city. Not only would this relieve congestion, it might also have a big impact on air pollution and greenhouse emissions. Cars and trucks emit more than 10x the greenhouse gasses accelerating when compared to cruising -- moving trucks off the 401 should mean more cruising and less stop and go.
 
GreyGhost said:
You were quite accurate with your comparison to the green energy act. It will be amazing how much public money is lit on fire to accomplish so little. The consortium will still want their money (say $200/trip), the truckers will want to pay a reasonable rate (say $1000/yr) so the public purse will pick up the difference (probably ~$50,000/yr/truck). Yup, just like the GEA.
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It's always the public purse. Either directly in goods pricing either indirectly in pollution, traffic jams, bad roads, wasted time, etc. Me, I would rather pay the actual cost for goods, and drop the nonsense where we all pay the hidden costs of greed and profit. Trucking can and it should be better regulated, most probably that won't trigger the end of the world. And $200 to go across GTA with a truckload of goods, may not impact one piece of cheese that much.
 
xrljoel said:
Perhaps the idea of lateness penalties for deliveries should be against the law. In talking to drivers I've heard stories about astronomical penalties and hours-long waits to be unloaded if you miss your time. It's not fair to the drivers or the companies and may contribute to driver fatigue and other issues.
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Like I said in other responses...great idea, but two problems:

1- Legislation is great and all but it won't force companies to hire more staff to just manage freight whenever it arrives. I hate appointment freight as much as the next driver, but I do to some extent understand the need for it - you can't just have 200 trucks all show at up 9AM to a facility with 20 docks and 15 forklift drivers and expect it to work on any level.

2- Companies will just leave. Legislate too many things and factories just pack up and move across the border to somewhere with less regulation.

3- In the end, if you force the issue anyways onto companies that can't just relocate (IE, grocery distribution warehouses for but one example)...companies just pass the costs onto consumers in the end, since consumer products is overwhelmingly what's on most trucks. All sorts of rules and regulations to "alleviate traffic issues" (which in reality, as has been explained many times in this thread, has little to do with trucks in the end anyways no matter what everyone wants to believe) will just end up costing you and me more at the shelf in the end. EVERYTHING is passed through to the end consumer. Trust me. Lots of companies hauling things are operating on razor thin margins to begin with - add any additional overhead and it just ends up on the statement at the end of the day as a surcharge of some sort. And that, eventually, filters downhill.

As for making the 407 a truck bypass route...well, yeah, that'd be absolutely awesome for us guys, no quesion, but good luck getting the consortium to agree to any flat rate deal. And hey, once again, in the end...it won't make the difference people think it would in the end anyways - it's incredibly niave to think that simply removing trucks from the 401 would have any difference whatsoever on rush hours.
 
I think the 407 was initially created to do just that, remove trucks from the 401, then I guess it was too good to pass up on making it a toll road instead, then selling it after that.
This city is f-d. for traffic.
 
Its amazing how bad it is. Today i went out to hamilton and back. I drove on the Gardiner, QEW and Redhill both ways. On each of the highways I was doing between the speedlimit and 10 over. I often had to pass people in the far right lane. People were doing 90(!) In the left lane on the QEW! Not a clue in the world to the 15 cars stacked up behind them.

They need to start ticketing people who jave this weird obsession with needing to drive k. the left lane regardless of their speed.
 
OllieDood said:
Its amazing how bad it is. Today i went out to hamilton and back. I drove on the Gardiner, QEW and Redhill both ways. On each of the highways I was doing between the speedlimit and 10 over. I often had to pass people in the far right lane. People were doing 90(!) In the left lane on the QEW! Not a clue in the world to the 15 cars stacked up behind them.

They need to start ticketing people who jave this weird obsession with needing to drive k. the left lane regardless of their speed.
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Funny enough I was on the QEW heading west as well yesterday. There was a turd sitting the in left lane close to where it merges with 403. When someone does this, I pass them while honking on the horn, this time I put my hand out in a kind WTF motion to see if they would notice. :rolleyes:
 
What would be the etiquette on HOV? It's the left most lane but not a passing lane. I usually go with the flow, slowing down (no brakes, only if necesaary) when I need to get out if needed.

Also frustrating when the cars are following so close to another in the left lane that gap to merge is hard to find.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 
moarmoto said:
What would be the etiquette on HOV? It's the left most lane but not a passing lane. I usually go with the flow, slowing down (no brakes, only if necesaary) when I need to get out if needed.

Also frustrating when the cars are following so close to another in the left lane that gap to merge is hard to find.

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Personally I treat the HOV lane like the fast lane. HOV lanes are a benefit for drivers that use the highway more efficiently by carrying more passengers. If you're in the HOV lane and traffic to the right is moving faster than you, move over, you are stealing the lane's benefits from all the drivers behind you.
 
If you have a passenger in your car its your god given right (and responsibility) to park yourself in the HOV lane. Disregard traffic, as soon as you exit that on ramp doing 75km/h you must blindly cut across all 3 lanes to get into that HOV.

Source: anytime I’ve been on the 401 near Hurontario or the 404 near Finch.
 
Mad Mike said:
Personally I treat the HOV lane like the fast lane. HOV lanes are a benefit for drivers that use the highway more efficiently by carrying more passengers. If you're in the HOV lane and traffic to the right is moving faster than you, move over, you are stealing the lane's benefits from all the drivers behind you.
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Unrealistic imo, you can only legally enter and exit at specific sections.

Also i question what benefit the lane has if traffic to the right is already moving faster then the HOV.
 
Evoex said:
Unrealistic imo, you can only legally enter and exit at specific sections.

Also i question what benefit the lane has if traffic to the right is already moving faster then the HOV.
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Yes, there are specific in/out points however they are not that far apart at full highway speeds.

The benefit? Same as any other left-lane benefit, it should be moving faster. If you're doddling along slower than traffic to your right, you are not getting the HOV or left lane benefits AND you're stealing it from others. Ask yourself, are you sharing the road nicely?
 
Mad Mike said:
Yes, there are specific in/out points however they are not that far apart at full highway speeds.

The benefit? Same as any other left-lane benefit, it should be moving faster. If you're doddling along slower than traffic to your right, you are not getting the HOV or left lane benefits AND you're stealing it from others. Ask yourself, are you sharing the road nicely?
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I suppose this is where we disagree, i would not consider the HOV a left/passing lane.

I would say there is no benefit to begin with because no one in this province knows how to use the passing lane for what it is, thus the entire system falls apart from the start.
 
Evoex said:
I suppose this is where we disagree, i would not consider the HOV a left/passing lane.

I would say there is no benefit to begin with because no one in this province knows how to use the passing lane for what it is, thus the entire system falls apart from the start.
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I don't consider the HOV a passing lane either... I don't believe adding a passenger gives you a right to pace the highway -- HOV or not. If traffic to the right of you is moving faster than you, move over.
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