Importation situation question

TwistedKestrel

TwistedKestrel

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Don't think this belongs in the general importation thread, but if this winds up there so be it.

Let's say an American immigrant successfully brought an American basket case bike across the border. They were not able to complete the importation process at the time, because the bike was distributed across many boxes. Time passes, the guy never finishes putting the bike together, and sells the basket case to a Canadian along with whatever paperwork he had. The Canadian completes the bike 100% (after previously consulting the CBSA to make sure that importing it would eventually be possible) but is now being told it can't be done. The paperwork is roughly 5 years old, the bike is over 15 years old (1994). It seems like to me this should still be possible, but it's not really clear what should be done.

(I'm not the Canadian)
 
Cant do it. Trailer it back across the border (show the paperwork you have to prove its a US bike), get the appropriate transfer permits from the state its registered in, and import it properly when you cross again into Canada. There is absolutely no process for registering it once its already here, and no one in the government will cut you a break on this.

It would be completely illegal to find a canadian parts bike with a clean ownership, and transfer the vin plates and engine casings to the new bike and try to register it. Dont do this instead.
 
bobjohnson said:
Cant do it. Trailer it back across the border (show the paperwork you have to prove its a US bike), get the appropriate transfer permits from the state its registered in, and import it properly when you cross again into Canada. There is absolutely no process for registering it once its already here, and no one in the government will cut you a break on this.

It would be completely illegal to find a canadian parts bike with a clean ownership, and transfer the vin plates and engine casings to the new bike and try to register it. Dont do this instead.
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if it happens to be a harley... you can get aftermarket frames for under a grand... i think closer to $500
 
EaZ8 said:
if it happens to be a harley... you can get aftermarket frames for under a grand... i think closer to $500
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Kawasaki. I think what you're talking about involves a (legal) VIN transfer, though ... as in, when using those aftermarket frames, the VIN is not SUPPOSED to change (they will not come with a VIN).

meester_jamie said:
a mechanic can seize it under the mechanics lien act for unpaid work .. and sell it.. back to you.
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I get what you're saying, but I think the mechanic won't be able to assume the title because it effectively does not exist.

bobjohnson said:
Cant do it. Trailer it back across the border (show the paperwork you have to prove its a US bike), get the appropriate transfer permits from the state its registered in, and import it properly when you cross again into Canada. There is absolutely no process for registering it once its already here, and no one in the government will cut you a break on this.

It would be completely illegal to find a canadian parts bike with a clean ownership, and transfer the vin plates and engine casings to the new bike and try to register it. Dont do this instead.
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Ouchola. If worse comes to worst, I feel like there's a risk of losing the bike entirely this way as the US border may view the vehicle as stolen. It was never registered in anyone's name other than the American - his signature is on a state title transfer, but I worry that's not good enough.

I wonder if it would help to get a lawyer involved - the Canadian put a lot of blood, sweat, and cash into rebuilding the bike from nothing, and it would be pretty heartbreaking to see him lose it to red tape.
 
A lawyer wont help. Customs needs to clear the bike, and the bike needs to be at the border for them to do that. You will need to get transfer papers from the DMV of the state the bike is registered in as well. Its a really convoluted process that makes buying used vehicles from a private seller in the US a huge pain.

I am not going to recommend you do something illegal. Getting a parts bike and swapping the vins would be illegal. No one would ever know but you, however, the moral guilt of registering and riding a motorcycle with swapped vins would ruin a person i am sure.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Kawasaki. I think what you're talking about involves a (legal) VIN transfer, though ... as in, when using those aftermarket frames, the VIN is not SUPPOSED to change (they will not come with a VIN).
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negative.. you can build your own frame and have a vin stamped on it that the ministry issues you.
you can also buy a aftermarket frame with a vin on it. my buddys harley isnt technically a harley, its a custom motorcycle with some random vin.
 
I heard of a gentleman a few years ago who imported an older bike from Italy, and when he saw the cost to do that, he imported it as parts and then registered it as a home-built. I'm not sure how legitimate his story was though.
 
Home-built doesn't fly anymore. I am in the process of converting a tube chassis dune buggy to a "Jeep" so it can get registered. You know the system is stupid when I can start with something that is unregisterable and make it street legal by hanging jeep body panels on it.
 
GreyGhost said:
Home-built doesn't fly anymore. I am in the process of converting a tube chassis dune buggy to a "Jeep" so it can get registered. You know the system is stupid when I can start with something that is unregisterable and make it street legal by hanging jeep body panels on it.
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i heard for cars thats because technically a certain amount of them need to be crash tested, where as a jeep has gone through all that testing and was given a crash test rating.. bikes are apparently different.
just what ive heard.
 
I'm going to jump in the discussion here, and first off I'm going to say that I am the Canadian individual the original poster is talking about. I would like to add some additional information relating to the situation. When the American guy brought the bike over in pieces, he fully intended to put it back together and register it for the road in Canada. I believe he had or still has resident status in Canada. I got the original Import 1 form from him stamped May 16, 2008 and an RIV inspection form which was never completed. So in my mind he already went through the steps in the US to legally export to Canada and just never completed the process on our side.

The first time I talked to border services over the phone, the agent I spoke with seemed to think that it would be little bit of work, but possible to finish importing the bike entirely within Canada. He mentioned I would need proof of purchase of the bike in the form of a sworn affadavit, an appraisal of the bike, safety, and to repay the import fee. So I merrily went on my way and proceeded to rebuild the bike at some expense, both monetarily and in sweat equity. The second time, and very recently, the guy I spoke with was very negative from the outset and not overly helpful. I got the feeling he was just brushing me off and not really listening to what I was saying. I'm sure anybody here who's had to deal with any bureaucratic organisation can relate. One person will tell you it's impossible and the next will say "no problem".

The frame option seems viable. By that I don't mean buying a wrecked bike and swapping the VIN on to the rebuilt one, but rather swapping all the parts onto the frame of the wrecked bike. Essentially you're doing the same thing, but it's legal ... I believe. Although, the wrecker bike would have to be a bike that was abandoned from a blown motor or tranny and not crashed; which seems to be more often the case.

Any more thoughts people?
 
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What kind of bike is this? I think the new frame may be cheapest option....thieves do it all the time.
 
It's a '94 Kawasaki ZX-11. It doesn't seem like there are many wrecked ZX-11's around. The sticker is that it has to be damaged enough that someone would think its not worth fixing it, but the frame itself has to be without fault and have a clear title with it.
 
ya thats going to be a tough one.... its a 20 year old bike...mind you, all bikes are awesome.
i would start calling around and looking for someone with one for sale, it may be your only option for spare parts as well.

speak with Kreator , they use to make their own frames (cruisers though but the law would be the same) and may be able to help you figure that part out if its even possible.
 
76Canuck said:
I got the original Import 1 form from him stamped May 16, 2008 and an RIV inspection form which was never completed. So in my mind he already went through the steps in the US to legally export to Canada and just never completed the process on our side.

The first time I talked to border services
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I think you should be talking to the MTO... they will tell you what you need..
the question is... what do I need to register an imported bike from USA.. that is over 15yrs old
they will probably say...
import 1 form
bill of sale
title
Safety
Insurance

Get a safety ,
Go to the MTO and hand them the Import Form 1, bill of sale, title, the Safety, pink slip
The MTO will charge you the import "fee" , the taxes, etc...

the question will be was it 15 yr old when it was imported..? but don't offer that ... they
what paper work are you missing?
 
Update. I phoned Canada border services again on Friday, and the woman I spoke to had a completely different outlook. She said it was doable. When I told her another officer pretty much shot me down, she said in the end it's up to the discretion of the officer. So right now it feels like it could go either way. She was saying all I should really need is proof of ownership, which could be the Michigan title signed by the seller, and proof of value of the bike. She told me Kelley Blue book value should suffice. She also said to phone the specific office I'm going to, to double check what they are looking for. I hope to go on Friday to the customs office in mississauga.
 
@ meester jamie, I have an Import 1 form dated may 16, 2008 (expired?), an RIV inspection form which was never completed and expired 30 days from may 16, 2008, a Michigan title for the bike with the seller's signature on it in the transfer box, and a sworn affadavit saying I purchased the bike in 2009 for X amount in cash.
 
Done. Took it to border services today and they "reimported" the bike for me. Riv exempt, and I didn't even have to pay the full duty and taxes again. Also did the safety today. Should be riding next week.
 
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