highway baptism

R

rome

Well-known member
I was invited to join for a breakfast ride yesterday at famous Sams. I was a bit hesitant cause of the highway route 401/404. Never been to a 400 series highway before. If i have to go somewhere i always look for a back road route.
Since this is only my 3rd year riding I'm very aware of my of my limits. But I'm very surprise how well my 1100 virago handled the speed. It was rock solid.
We got there and saw some of the most interesting vintage bikes. Oh by the way some of the most greasiest breakfast you can ever have.

be safe
 
My POV only. As soon as I got up to 80-95km/h range (in 70-80 zones), going into the 100s really didn't make that much difference. Relax, keep a smooth control, prepare for stupidity from other drivers, and ride with common courtesy.

Never been to famous Sam's... even though I'm only 10-15 mins away (more like 30 on local roads ;))
 
Good for you OP - you certainly have enough weight and oomph for the 400 series. I think what gets riders the most is the violence of the wind and turbulence if you try and ride the fast lane.

Up to 120 it's fine after that can get white knuckle in a cross wind with heavy trucks. Four of us coming back from PA in rather ahem high spirits got body slammed by a vortex off the back corner of a tandem transport. Object lesson - don't pass tandems on the right in a cross wind. :D

Going with the traffic flow in the middle lane and keeping a safe stopping distance make slab riding perhaps the least onerous ( most boring ) and very safe.
Keeping cagers off your rear bumper is an ongoing struggle tho as is keeping your temper when they do. Move over let them by.

Glad you busted the barrier - now you can get out of town quick and into some better roads.
 
Glad you had a safe ride. Surprised it took you 3 years and that you would doubt that a bike with an engine over 1000cc would be able to handle it. I was cautious when it came to hitting the highway and I did it in my first year but to each his own. A 125 is highway capable...
 
MacDoc said:
Going with the traffic flow in the middle lane and keeping a safe stopping distance make slab riding perhaps the least onerous ( most boring ) and very safe.
Keeping cagers off your rear bumper is an ongoing struggle tho as is keeping your temper when they do. Move over let them by.
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wtf are you talking about here?

Are seriously saying you should ride in the MIDDLE lane? Is that so there's no blocking position, or maybe so people can pass you on the right?

And then you advocate moving over if they're on your ass? If you are properly in the right hand lane there would be no need to move over, and as an added bonus you would actually have a blocking position that might work.

MacDoc, you were usually spot on with your comments and suggestions, but I gotta say lately that I've been really shaking my head at some stuff you've said.
 
unL33T said:
Glad you had a safe ride. Surprised it took you 3 years and that you would doubt that a bike with an engine over 1000cc would be able to handle it. I was cautious when it came to hitting the highway and I did it in my first year but to each his own. A 125 is highway capable...
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I'm wondering if riding a motorcycle is for him, lol. I can't think of a safer place to ride than on a highway. It's intersections that kill bikers, not highways.
 
imnothng said:
wtf are you talking about here?

Are seriously saying you should ride in the MIDDLE lane? Is that so there's no blocking position, or maybe so people can pass you on the right?

And then you advocate moving over if they're on your ***? If you are properly in the right hand lane there would be no need to move over, and as an added bonus you would actually have a blocking position that might work.

MacDoc, you were usually spot on with your comments and suggestions, but I gotta say lately that I've been really shaking my head at some stuff you've said.
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I don't think Macdoc is leading the OP astray. The 400 series in the GTA has a lot of exit/entry traffic dump in/out of the right lane the majority of the time. Heck some right lanes exit without much sense.

When you have traffic making some incredulous moves to make their exit or merge as they enter, I know I don't like to stay in the right lane until traffic volume is light enough to make it safe. Even when I'm in a cage, let alone a motorcycle when I'm completely invisible to others.

The middle lane has it's own challenges with maintaining a blocking position, no doubt about it. Having to keep an eye on both sides if you are not maintaining the flow of traffic can put you in harms way as well.

It's a jungle out there.

I agree to try and stay right unless to pass. But, traffic conditions can also justify a different approach.
 
Exactly - the right is far away the most dangerous with idjits cutting across to get to their exits and people entering that have to be dodged- and the left lane around here is 130 plus and OP is NOT going to want to deal with the tailgaters.
Creeping along in the right lane is a recipe for problems - the middle lane is the lesser of evils especially if you find a vehicle going a comfortable speed.
It is a jungle in urban.
Out on the main highway with light traffic I still prefer the middle lane for stable speed but right lane is less of a problem than it is in the city areas.
If I'm in a hurry the left lane is the ticket as long as the rider it willing to stay with traffic and turn the wick up. The cost on fuel consumption staying left in the GTA or 401 is brutal.

Here's reality.....the left lane is the safest but a newbie is not going to feel comfortable at the speeds around here... I do NOT agree that staying right on a 3 or 4 lane slab is the correct approach at all. If it's multiple lane like that then enter and exiting is frequent.....middle is safer.

Stay right only applies to two lane slab and for that it is correct except when coming up on an entrance with visible traffic - then move to the left and stay with the flow or time your riding so entering cars don't get pinned.

Of the roughly 100,000 accident reports in the raw data, 8,069 mention a three-lane highway. Of those, 4,028 (50%) cite a specific lane: 900 left lane (22%), 1,513 middle lane (38%), and 1,615 right lane (40%):

If we modify the script to count total lane mentions instead of just the first lane mentioned, the results are even more dramatic. The right lane jumps to 10,899 mentions (46% of all mentions), while the middle lane (8,923, 37%) and left lane (4,089, 17%) drop.

tumblr_m2wt8aI7B61qkcgdm.png


So we have our answer: the right lane is the most dangerous lane on the highway, and the left lane is the safest. Granted, the methodology isn’t 100% bulletproof, but I consider it good enough to prove what we already knew
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http://dfkoz.tumblr.com/post/21621913737/what-is-the-safest-lane-on-the-highway

imnothng - maybe you should listen to 40+ years of riding a motorcycle without an accident before you shoot your mouth off about my being wrong. What you THINK is safe....isn't. You are advising a new rider to stay in the most dangerous lane.....
 
imnothng said:
I'm wondering if riding a motorcycle is for him, lol. I can't think of a safer place to ride than on a highway. It's intersections that kill bikers, not highways.
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The crash videos I've been looking at recently would disagree with you. So far I've seen;

* right lane bikers getting slammed by someone who went "Oh **** that's my exit!" and proceeded to cut 3 lanes.

* Left lane bikers who were very visible getting side rammed by someone moving from middle to left with no signaling.

* right lane cagers riding bikers *** who decided the biker was going too slow and passing was too complicated thus accelerating was the only option. (those really made me go WTF, so did the bikers deciding to pass a line of cars by going in opposite traffic.)

* and one biker who got slammed into a cement block; he was to the left of the left lane there was a chest high cement separation wall to his left between the two sides of the highway, it was stop and go traffic, a cager decided "nope you aren't passing me" and just as he was nearing the front of the car the guy turned and moved towards the cement wall.




I've also seen plenty of bikers doing stupid **** and paying for it too but still. Cagers are scary.
 
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nakkers said:
I don't think Macdoc is leading the OP astray. The 400 series in the GTA has a lot of exit/entry traffic dump in/out of the right lane the majority of the time. Heck some right lanes exit without much sense.

.
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There is no doubt that the 401 is messed up around Toronto, as it the 400 to a lesser extent. It's too bad that so many drivers/riders just automatically drive in the middle lane and mess up the flow of the highway. This causes a lot of conjestion, road rage, etc and is really quite rude. In some cases you have to stay towards the middle as Macdoc suggests. (This is really more of an issue in the GTA but less so away from it.) Unfortunately this is what is causing the overall problem in the first place and it would be a good thing if people would start realizing this and drive properly by staying right when not passing.

The problem with the middle lane is that threats can come from you from either direction and these threats are hard to predict. Threats while in the right lane are generally pretty predictable. People will try and merge to join the traffic and people in the middle lane will try and move to the ramp. You can see it coming quite easily and in general there is less traffic there as well. You will have to change lanes now and then buut that is why there are muclitple lanes.

On a Motorcycle I think you shoudl be a *little* bit on the aggressive side and not be stuck sitting in a row of cars. The complacency of going with the flow can cause you to let your guard down. You will also liklely be closer to the car in front of you and not see debris or road problems in time to react. That can lead to cars moving into you as you dissappear from their conciousness.

My thoughts come from over 40 years of legally riding street *motorcycles* with 254,500 km of riding motorcycles in the last 7 years and about 30,000 km a year commuting daily on motorcycles in the GTA plus a previous life where I drove truck for a living.

..Tom
 
In general I agree but I'd never recommend a newish rider stay in the right lane except in two lane slab.

I don't agree that the issue is too many in the middle - that's the smooth flow lane - no one entering and exiting the highway.

The left is the safest but is for passing ( you'd never know in the GTA ).

I agree with needing a bubble and the trick for that is to give yourself additional space to the vehicle ahead without inviting someone into it....that will vary with condition.
I've not had tailgating much in the middle lane - the fast lane is the worst for that.
I'm more than willing to accelerate around the middle lane driver ahead of me that is moving at the speed I am comfortable with and use him as a rearguard if there is driver following me too close in the middle lane.
Either running ahead of me, or behind me with reasonable distance and that distance does allow those switching lanes to do so.
The threat is usually coming from the right lane - people wanting to get into the faster lanes.

As a truck driver you have way more overview than the rider and a vehicle presence - the rider is vulnerable to not being seen and a lot of attention needs to be paid to the right lane and those that want to either enter the middle or cross to the high speed....that's why some extra distance from the vehicle ahead helps....ease off and let them cross ahead of you. I'll often make eye contact and nod. That's a lot easier on an upright riding position.

Being aware of what is going on from an SS position or even a sport touring like the ST1100 I find more difficult tho I can sit upright on the ST.

I agree you cannot get complacent but a steady speed driver ahead of you just reduces the variables in my view.

Studies have shown that most accident prone conditions are when lanes are travelling at significantly different speeds.

It comes down to experience - and one might not intuit the left lane being the safest but it is and with the capabilities of the motorcycles....tracking a car doing about the same speed as you in the left lane and slightly faster than the other lanes feels to me most secure.

But not for a noob given the 130-140+ the left lane travels in the GTA. That stretch downhill from Hurontario to Erin Mills going west bound gets to insane speeds at times and a new rider often on a light bike it would be white knuckle time.

I don't think there is one set of "rules" that covers all conditions. Drivers in rush hour or hitting the cottage are far more aggressive than say those crossing the top of the city midday.
But for the OP I'll stick with the middle being safest and the right lane least safe on 3+ lane roads.
Two lane?? yeah stay right and be careful.
 
MacDoc said:
blah blah blah

imnothng - maybe you should listen to 40+ years of riding a motorcycle without an accident before you shoot your mouth off about my being wrong. What you THINK is safe....isn't. You are advising a new rider to stay in the most dangerous lane.....
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OP, please stay in the left lane because it is the safest.

Make sure you listen to everything this fella says, he has 40 years of experience without an accident. Personally I only have 12 and 8 of those have been doing the speed limit in the right hand lane passing all the tards cruising along in the middle lane.
 
It comes down to riding styles, when you choose a lane where you feel the most comfortable. I was also surprised it took you that long to get on the hwy, I could'nt wait to get on there and let 'er rip! Try different lanes and speeds & see how YOU like the pace and flow.
 
i was with 2 experience riders, riding touring and sport bikes, we were either on the left or the right lane most of the time. We only stayed on the center lane when there was no cars around.
I went and see what my bike can handle ,and of course myself. To my surprise it handled the speed with ease. At least i know that the speed and power is there if i needed it.
 
This thread really makes me appreciate the fact that my bike has a high, straight up riding position and is pretty stable on the highway, with a big windscreen. I even managed to survive getting caught on the DVP in that super-windy freak hailstorm a few weeks ago, though that was pretty hairy on a bike. Not something I want to do again!

Reminds me of the first time I went on the highway with a full size bike. I meant to go across Steeles and found myself in the on ramp for the 401 a couple weeks in. I hadn't meant to go on the highway so soon, but I just said "aw **** it, I'm already here", and I was fine (I guess I was ready after all).

Of course, that doesn't count the time I accidentally rode the DVP on a moped (years ago, before I started riding full-size bikes), because I was going south on Woodbine near Steeles, misread the signs and just went straight on the highway. That was actually pretty funny, though I was mostly terrified some cop was going to pull me over for riding a moped on a 400-series road illegally.

Anyway, the lane you do best in is the one you're most comfortable in. They all have their advantages and disadvantages: The right is slower and has more escape routes, but can sometimes disappear into a turn-off or merge and has the heaviest lane-change traffic. The middle is often a good compromise lane, but means you have to scan both sides for lane changers and don't have good blocking position to ride in (usually I just ride right in the middle of a middle lane). The left has the best blocking positions, but has the worst escape profile and does require a higher speed (though my own bike's mileage sweet spots are 90kmh and 120kmh)... sometimes the left-hand traffic flow is just stupidly fast, with idiots screaming along at a "cruising" speed of 140-150kmh.

I tend to stick to the left lane (sometimes going to the middle to let the true nut-cases pass), but sometimes I'm tired or whatever and go over to the right to cruise on at the slower pace.
 
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Your point being or are you just laughing at your own puerile supposed witticism....
Do you have something cogent to add?? :rolleyes:
 
My highway baptism occurred about 1km from the spot I picked up my M2. My only reasonable route to work is by highway so I dove right in. Realized very quickly it was way safer than riding hwy 7 from Brampton to Markham.
 
MacDoc said:
Your point being or are you just laughing at your own puerile supposed witticism....
Do you have something cogent to add?? :rolleyes:
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Damn, sorry I missed this.

The left lane is the safest, stay there.

That is all.
 
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