Find a soft wall to bang your head against | GTAMotorcycle.com

Find a soft wall to bang your head against

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nobbie48

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So Ford promised lower rates as did his predecessor. The board that oversees the industry has granted the insurers an increase and the trial lawyers are releasing a report that says that Ontario rates are a rip off.

Popcorn anyone
 
Don't worry, he'll spend a billion dollars to break those pesky ironclad Beer Store contracts to ensure we all get buck-a-beer in our nearest corner store, and everything will then be juuuuuust fine.
 
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Hasn't this all been said before over the years, and nothing has been done. What can the average joe do to send a message to the government or whoever, that this needs fixing?
 
sburns said:
Hasn't this all been said before over the years, and nothing has been done. What can the average joe do to send a message to the government or whoever, that this needs fixing?
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Block roads in protest, or show up at Queens Park to yell and scream while holding angry written signs, or organize a slow driving convoy on the 401, or make a Facebook page and rant endlessly on it, or....

Oh, wait...most of those things have been tried and didn't accomplish much, or worse yet, turned the very people whom really should be most in support of the cause (a lot of whom are getting raped on insurance) against the protesters because they were inconvenienced for a few minutes on their drive (ironically) to work or something.

So yes, what can WE do? Not much IMHO. This is an issue the government needs to tackle head-on by reducing what increasingly seems like the main cause of these high rates - fraud. Until there's a crackdown at both the government end to punish the people running these fraud schemes, and at the insurance company ends to find and root them out (which will cost them more $ than they likely stand to benefit from it, so that's likely why it doesn't happen) it will just continue to spiral upwards.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Block roads in protest, or show up at Queens Park to yell and scream while holding angry written signs, or organize a slow driving convoy on the 401, or make a Facebook page and rant endlessly on it, or....

Oh, wait...most of those things have been tried and didn't accomplish much, or worse yet, turned the very people whom really should be most in support of the cause (a lot of whom are getting raped on insurance) against the protesters because they were inconvenienced for a few minutes on their drive (ironically) to work or something.

So yes, what can WE do? Not much IMHO. This is an issue the government needs to tackle head-on by reducing what increasingly seems like the main cause of these high rates - fraud. Until there's a crackdown at both the government end to punish the people running these fraud schemes, and at the insurance company ends to find and root them out (which will cost them more $ than they likely stand to benefit from it, so that's likely why it doesn't happen) it will just continue to spiral upwards.
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Basic math: Sending a cop out to investigate fraud costs money. Sending a cop out to man a radar trap makes money.
 
TK4 said:
www.thestar.com

Why are Ontarians possibly overpaying billions in auto insurance?

The top 10 insurers earned higher profits for their auto insurance businesses in Ontario than all of their Canada-wide insurance operations combined between 2016 and 2018, a new report says.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
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BS article that was paid for by trial lawyers and doesn’t factor in actual claims paid out. Insurance companies are not making billions in profit in Ontario. Claims costs and fraud are out of control ..plus new cars are so expensive to fix and ambulance chasing lawyers are driving up injury claims costs.
you try running a business where the product you sell you have no idea what the actual cost will be for years.
I.e sell an auto policy for $2000 and not know what claims it will bring if ever. How do you price that ? You can only price it based on past expenses and even then you are guessing. Auto insurance rates in Canada must be approved by FSCO not only for an increase but a decrease . The government would not be handing increases to insurance companies if they weren’t warranted as they know how unpopular insurance is with the public.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Block roads in protest, or show up at Queens Park to yell and scream while holding angry written signs, or organize a slow driving convoy on the 401, or make a Facebook page and rant endlessly on it, or....

Oh, wait...most of those things have been tried and didn't accomplish much, or worse yet, turned the very people whom really should be most in support of the cause (a lot of whom are getting raped on insurance) against the protesters because they were inconvenienced for a few minutes on their drive (ironically) to work or something.

So yes, what can WE do? Not much IMHO. This is an issue the government needs to tackle head-on by reducing what increasingly seems like the main cause of these high rates - fraud. Until there's a crackdown at both the government end to punish the people running these fraud schemes, and at the insurance company ends to find and root them out (which will cost them more $ than they likely stand to benefit from it, so that's likely why it doesn't happen) it will just continue to spiral upwards.
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There is so much fraud it’s unreal....but fraud isnt just the obvious scams its also when the body shop asks if you are paying for the damage or the insurance company . If you say the insurance commonly is they jack up the price. until that stops we will never get the clams costs under control. The public is to blame for insurance costs period
 
F3800RC said:
BS article that was paid for by trial lawyers and doesn’t factor in actual claims paid out. Insurance companies are not making billions in profit in Ontario. Claims costs and fraud are out of control ..plus new cars are so expensive to fix and ambulance chasing lawyers are driving up injury claims costs.
you try running a business where the product you sell you have no idea what the actual cost will be for years.
I.e sell an auto policy for $2000 and not know what claims it will bring if ever. How do you price that ? You can only price it based on past expenses and even then you are guessing. Auto insurance rates in Canada must be approved by FSCO not only for an increase but a decrease . The government would not be handing increases to insurance companies if they weren’t warranted as they know how unpopular insurance is with the public.
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Um, taking the risk away from the client is the only reason that insurance companies are in business. If you take away the risk, then there's no reason for their existence.
 
Baggsy said:
Um, taking the risk away from the client is the only reason that insurance companies are in business. If you take away the risk, then there's no reason for their existence.
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Where did I say dont take away the risk from the customer? what is your point
 
"The government would not be handing increases to insurance companies if they weren’t warranted as they know how unpopular insurance is with the public."
What planet are you living on ? The government will bow down to whoever lobbies them and screams the loudest. As for running my own business, I have - and if I was given a virtual monopoly (along with the cooperation of my so-called competitors) to charge what I wanted to I would be a very wealthy person.
 
TK4 said:
"The government would not be handing increases to insurance companies if they weren’t warranted as they know how unpopular insurance is with the public."
What planet are you living on ? The government will bow down to whoever lobbies them and screams the loudest. As for running my own business, I have - and if I was given a virtual monopoly (along with the cooperation of my so-called competitors) to charge what I wanted to I would be a very wealthy person.
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you aren’t rich because of other reasons don’t blame the fact you didnt have a monopoly,
and the planet I live on is knowledge and experience for many years of the insurance industry and as much as you like to think there is some conspiracy there isn’t. insurance companies are regulated , cannot charge whatever they want . If they could why would they ever file for rate reductions, not just rate increases
 
F3800RC said:
you aren’t rich because of other reasons don’t blame the fact you didnt have a monopoly,
and the planet I live on is knowledge and experience for many years of the insurance industry and as much as you like to think there is some conspiracy there isn’t. insurance companies are regulated , cannot charge whatever they want . If they could why would they ever file for rate reductions, not just rate increases
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I call bullsh*t - the insurance industry is not a free market business. Explain to me why I can't get vintage motorcycle insurance for anything less than DOUBLE what I'm currently paying for my 2006 street bike ? If I lived south of the border, Hagerty's premium would be $212/year and they'd be making money, wouldn't they ? Why is Ontario so ridiculous in comparison to the rest of Canada ? Its the same insurance companies, but the gov keeps them on a tighter leash elsewhere.
What I'm asking for is transparency and accountability - prove it to me with facts and figures. That's not so hard is it ?
 
F3800RC said:
you aren’t rich because of other reasons don’t blame the fact you didnt have a monopoly,
and the planet I live on is knowledge and experience for many years of the insurance industry and as much as you like to think there is some conspiracy there isn’t. insurance companies are regulated , cannot charge whatever they want . If they could why would they ever file for rate reductions, not just rate increases
Click to expand...
It's not that simple. Insurers file rates annually based on their business practices and their evaluation of payouts. Regulators watch for gouging however they don't regulate everything that contributes to cost. For example, there are no limits on fraud losses, therefor no incentive for insurers to fight fraud -- they are simply allowed to pass along those costs. There are also no regulation that forces insurers to prove detailed actuarial data. If you compare risk rates in places where they have to prove risk by driver profile and vehicle you will see no correlation to Ontario rates.

Finally, there is noting in insurance regulation that allows the public to have input as to what is offered and what is mandatory, that is cartel driven. For example, if you have a $2M blanket liability policy, you cannot purchase auto insurance without re-buying liability insurance on every car, truck and bike -- however you can use it for your boat and airplane. Same goes for A/B, if you have your own insurance for A/B you still must purchase it again on every vehicle.

The whole thing needs overhauling. That's a tough job and takes a lot of political capital -- not the biggest priority for a provincial gov't, particularly when they get big dollars from the insurance lobby.
 
TK4 said:
I call bullsh*t - the insurance industry is not a free market business. Explain to me why I can't get vintage motorcycle insurance for anything less than DOUBLE what I'm currently paying for my 2006 street bike ? If I lived south of the border, Hagerty's premium would be $212/year and they'd be making money, wouldn't they ? Why is Ontario so ridiculous in comparison to the rest of Canada ? Its the same insurance companies, but the gov keeps them on a tighter leash elsewhere.
What I'm asking for is transparency and accountability - prove it to me with facts and figures. That's not so hard is it ?
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look at insurance company financials, they are on their website . Unless you think those are faked too. US insurers don’t have accident benefits in the policy and you can also buy liability limits as low as 10,000. So quoting a price without the proper info on what what the coverages are doesn’t mean anything . Ontario premiums remained higher due to the population density and the claims. However , sonnet insurance just applied recently for a 50 percent rate increase in Nova Scotia and it was approved. So it’s catching up to Ontario everywhere.
here are some articles with facts ( again as long as you don’t believe they are fake or made up)

How bad the industry’s loss has been in 2019 so far

Global CAT risks impacting Canadian property insurance markets

The impact of Dorian on Canada’s P&C industry
 
Mad Mike said:
It's not that simple. Insurers file rates annually based on their business practices and their evaluation of payouts. Regulators watch for gouging however they don't regulate everything that contributes to cost. For example, there are no limits on fraud losses, therefor no incentive for insurers to fight fraud -- they are simply allowed to pass along those costs. There are also no regulation that forces insurers to prove detailed actuarial data. If you compare risk rates in places where they have to prove risk by driver profile and vehicle you will see no correlation to Ontario rates.

Finally, there is noting in insurance regulation that allows the public to have input as to what is offered and what is mandatory, that is cartel driven. For example, if you have a $2M blanket liability policy, you cannot purchase auto insurance without re-buying liability insurance on every car, truck and bike -- however you can use it for your boat and airplane. Same goes for A/B, if you have your own insurance for A/B you still must purchase it again on every vehicle.

The whole thing needs overhauling. That's a tough job and takes a lot of political capital -- not the biggest priority for a provincial gov't, particularly when they get big dollars from the insurance lobby.
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it is that simple ..dollars in dollars out.
what you don’t realize is insurance companies are fighting fraud within reason, if they fought all fraud to the maximum they could ,they would make even less money as the costs are way higher to fight and investigate claims then to pay and settle them. if you want them to fight all the time then your rates will be even higher. Do the math
also if you have a personal umbrella it goes over all your stuff. Yes you still have to buy primary coverage of course .
the public was encouraged to give their input ....here .
www.canadianunderwriter.ca

Ontario wants to hear from consumers about how to lower auto rates

The Ontario government is inviting drivers and consumers to share their views on how to lower the province’s auto insurance rates, part of a broader initiative on auto insurance reform. “The previous government’s failed system of stretch goals on auto…
www.canadianunderwriter.ca www.canadianunderwriter.ca

I doubt many did as most like to whine and not see the truth. Did you send in your suggestions?
 
F3800RC said:
I doubt many did as most like to whine and not see the truth. Did you send in your suggestions?
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“We have been calling for changes to how auto insurance is regulated for years. The province’s auto insurance system is outdated and Ontario drivers pay too much for their insurance. We believe there is a better approach.”


"This consultation is now closed."
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