designkarma
Member
Friend got in trouble. First offence. Anything can be done - any good experience / ideas?
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Failure to surrender insurance card (driving without insurance).
- Thread starter designkarma
- Start date
if your 'friend' has insurance arrange to meet the prosecutor, show him/her the insurance slip and case will be dismissed.
If your 'friend' doesn't have insurance well that's a $5000 fine for first offense. Be interesting to see who has experience with plea bargaining this down or getting off it altogether.
If your 'friend' doesn't have insurance well that's a $5000 fine for first offense. Be interesting to see who has experience with plea bargaining this down or getting off it altogether.
There is case precedent where even with a plea agreement, the judge set aside the sentence recommendation of $2,000 fine and still gave the $5,000 fine. Judge's reason was this is set as the minimum fine as set out in the statute and it's designed to be that high to encourage owners to obtain insurance rather than avoid paying high insurance and pleasing for a fine lower than the cost of insurance.
Also, this type of plea would bring the system of justice into disrepute. This is Ontario case law. If it's drive without insurance and $5,000 fine, tread carefully. Not only for the fine, but the effect on your future insurance. This is not one insurance companies ignore.
So was the charge "failure to surrender insurance card", or "operating a vehicle contrary to the Compulsory Vehicle Insurance Act"? They aren't the same thing.
designkarma
Member
He just told me it was a "Fail To Surrender Insurance Card" - no big deal.
If he had valid insurance at the time of the stop, then he might be able to get it dropped by showing the card at first attendance. There's no guarantee, however, as he actually didn't show his card at the time of the stop. It's not a violation with respect to having insurance, but rather a violation with respect to failing to prove insurance at any given time, while operating a vehicle.
There's something more to this, me thinks. Hmmm....
If this is true then that type of people will just keep driving without insurance.
Insurance cost them $4k and fine is $5k...so just keep driving and hope they don't get caught.
For some ppl they have to pay $5k+ so it's cheaper to pay the fine.
Immigrants get hosed big time.
I think the NDP raised this issue.
I got dinged for not having my insurance card on me in my youth.. My insurance was up to date, my current slip had expired literally the day before, and I had forgotten to put the new slip in the car.. I went to court, and showed my proof of insurance, but the prosecutor wouldn't dismiss it. He said it was well and good that I had insurance but the fine was for not producing it when asked by the officer, and for that I was guilty.
Ymmv.
Ymmv.
Land the reverse is true...make the fine less and people whose insurance is more will still drive without. Eg. Ins=$5,000 and Min Fine=$1,000 then one who is without insurance could be caught 4x per year and still come out ahead.
Easy answer is drive without insurance and lose the vehicle. Vehicle sold at auction and proceeds over $5,000 go into the facility insurance fund.
Ok i dont get it, how do you just walk into the MTO with a fake slip and get plates and a sticker...... Shouldent they call the insurance company every time?,when you get pulled over cant the cop call the number on the back of the slip and make sure its valid?.. I just dont undestand how so many people get away with it.
Well you could get your sticker with valid insurance, and then cancel your insurance, or fail to make payments.. the sticker won't just fall off lol..
But that said, it's not an issue of validity, the officer knows if you have insurance as soon as he runs your plate.. giving you a ticket for failing to have a slip is just an excuse to give you a ticket.. if you actually didn't have insurance, the ticket you would be receiving would me MUCH worse..
True, and not true. The ticket isn't just for the sake of giving a ticket. If you don't have your insurance slip with you, then you are incapable of presenting it to another motorist after a collision as you are required to, by law. The fine for failure to present your insurance card is an incentive to make sure that you have it with you, if for no other reason than you don't want that ticket.
Rarely do I have the insurance slip for the vehicle I'm changing into my name. They just tell you what to fill out and you do it. The one time that the girl asked me, I made up a number off the top of my head.
I suppose that's a good point.
Scary
Well-known member
I've never heard of that before. Don't you have 48 hours to show up at the accident reporting center with insurance info and all that jazz?
i was rear-ended earlier this year, and the other driver produced a photocopy of what appeared to be his insurance slip; he gave that same photocopy to Peel Police, who simply wrote it down on the accident report
a few weeks later i get a call from my insurance company that his insurance policy was cancelled two years ago, and the driver doctored the photocopied insurance slip; because he didn't have insurance i had to pay the $500 deductible to get my car out of the body shop: http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?153369
surprisingly i have to appear as a crown witness tomorrow because the officer charged him with careless driving, i've got my fingers crossed he also has to answer to
CAIA 13.1 (1) - Possession, use, sale, etc., of false or invalid insurance card
which carries a minimum of $10,000 to $50,000
CAIA 2.(1) - Compulsory automobile insurance
which carries a minimum of $5,000 to $25,000
lets not forget the 25% victim surcharge on top of the minimas
Many years ago both myself, and the person before me in court got our 'minimum fines' reduced to $2500. If I recall correctly, he was pleading poverty and had a bunch of documentation, I legitimately didn't know I was driving without valid insurance at the time of a collision and also had documentation. The judge didn't even look at mine, she just offered the same deal as the other guy and I stupidly took it.
On the plus side, the insurance company who caused my problem incurred at least eight man hours of an in-house lawyer who didn't even get to say anything.
Cops sure like to spot-check anyone with an insurance related ticket on their record, 'believe you me.'
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