Ducati scooter rumors

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CafeRay

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The interweb is full of Ducati small bike and scooter rumors. This is based on another weak sales year.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/oped/ducati-scooter-rumors/

But this was countered by Domenicali himself:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/N...ti-officially-dismisses-scooter-rumour-again/

But we know a small scrambler is in development.

ducati-scrambler-spy-photo.jpg


They don't want to commit to small bikes, but feel like they can ride out the recession by making super-expensive exclusive boutique bikes.
Too bad, I always liked the small Pantahs.

ducati-pantah-500-01.jpg
 
Why on Earth would they want to make scooters?

So they can be "last to market"? They'll be playing catch up with the Japanese for 5-8 years. The words "Piggio" and "Kymco" are enough to terrify any company trying to enter this space.

Now, it is possible to make and sell scooters via partnership with Kymco. BMW is doing it... and Kawasaki will do it with their new J300 scooter. So Ducati could also sell Kymco scooters (just different fairings and stickers), but that would dilute their brand, the same way it has diluted the BMW brand already, IMHO...
 
Matt Rain said:
In your eyes, and mine, sure. Lotsa peeps out there who don't give a rat's *** about motorcycles and/or manual transmissions.
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Mmh, sorry, that's not what I meant.

I meant to say that a premium brand, like BMW or Ducati, would take a risk by selling scooters designed and made in Taiwan.

(Note: BMW's new scooters C650GT and C600 are not really BMW... but Taiwanese. )

So, what I was trying to say is that people who buy a BMW scooter expect it to be made by BMW, in Germany, with the best of german technology and design. That’s BMW marketing... Teutonic heritage is part of the brand mystic, right?

Then, buyers realize that the scooter engine was designed and made in Taiwan, not by BMW but by a Taiwanese company called Kymco. Most of the parts of the scooter are made in China or Taiwan, and even when the sticker says “assembled in Germany” it is not made there. If someone asks, the salesman tells them that the scooter was developed under a “BMW – Kymco partnership”. Apparently, the partnership works like this: Kymco supplies the scooter, and BMW provides the badges. Kawasaki has entered into the same partnership with Kymco.

So, is it a German scooter, or a Taiwanese one that has been rebranded?
If it is a Taiwanese machine (Kymco), why would anyone pay BMW prices? Just to have the blue and white badges on the sides? For me, if I wanted a Taiwanese ride, I’d buy a Taiwanese scooter to start with. Kymco is for sale in Canada.

Same situation applies to Ducati. People who would buy a Ducati scooter would expect it to be made by Ducati, in Italy, with the best of Italian technology and design. Not a rebranded Kymco.
 
True, true, I misconstrued your post. I agree totally - if I'm Ducati, I create a new sister brand for the scooter line.

But I guess that my point remains partly valid - we live in an era of scooter chic. I don't think that a well-done scooter would dilute the brand all that much, Taiwanese or not.
 
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Matt Rain said:
True, true, I misconstrued your post. I agree totally - if I'm Ducati, I create a new sister brand for the scooter line.

But I guess that my point remains partly valid - we live in an era of scooter chic. I don't think that a well-done scooter would dilute the brand all that much, Taiwanese or not.
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The sister brand is very good idea.

Ducati could do 3 or 4 things:

Do nothing, and don’t participate in the scooter market (which is huge outside of North America). Just limit themselves to build Ducatis as we know them.

Or, enter the scooter market, to expand the Ducati brand and sell more units, developing their own scoot, which may be costly and not the best machine out there, when compared to the competition (Honda, Yamaha, Kymco and Piaggio).

Or, enter the scooter market without developing their own scooter, just selling re-branded Kymcos (under Ducati or sister brand).

Or actually, they could partner with Piaggio (which has scooters under three brands, Vespa, Piaggio, and Aprilia scooters). Because both companies are in Italy, they could cooperate better and faster.

Mmmmh... possibilities... possibilities
 
Matt Rain said:
True, true, I misconstrued your post. I agree totally - if I'm Ducati, I create a new sister brand for the scooter line.

But I guess that my point remains partly valid - we live in an era of scooter chic. I don't think that a well-done scooter would dilute the brand all that much, Taiwanese or not.
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Doesn't stop BMW from making scooters. Most of Europe commutes on scooters.
 
CafeRay said:
To sell stuff and avoid bankruptcy?
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Honestly, there are easier ways to make money. Research and development costs would be huge (for a new scooter that has to be designed from scratch).

Look at Harley Davidson, at some point also at risk of bankrupt, now making millions by selling gear with their logo (they used to have a division called Harley-Davidson Motorclothes, more profitable than selling bikes at retail).


Also, Ducati cannot come up with a small, cheap, entry-level 50cc scooter. Because of the brand, it has to be a super-scooter similar to the Aprilia SRV850 scooter. Very challenging to come up with something like that overnight.


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MarcosSantiago said:
Honestly, there are easier ways to make money. Research and development costs would be huge (for a new scooter that has to be designed from scratch).

Look at Harley Davidson, at some point also at risk of bankrupt, now making millions by selling gear with their logo (they used to have a division called Harley-Davidson Motorclothes, more profitable than selling bikes at retail).


Also, Ducati cannot come up with a small, cheap, entry-level 50cc scooter. Because of the brand, it has to be a super-scooter similar to the Aprilia SRV850 scooter. Very challenging to come up with something like that overnight.
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R&D costs are high for any motorcycle, the multistrada R&D was $22M. Ducati already has a clothing and accessories brand and store, they are all over European airports and online.
I would think that Ducati could come up with a scooter, and most European scooters are over 200cc and some can challenge sport bikes.

The Japanese companies are surviving right now on scooters and small bikes. There are too many companies making >$20K super bikes without the sales to match. The sales models of the 2000s will not work any more, that market has dried up. Unlike the past, where Ducati could float on Italian government money, that has also dried up and they now answer to Audi.

They cannot survive with Panigales. I don't think people realize just how bad the economy is in Europe and the US. There are no easy ways to make money.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
Also, Ducati cannot come up with a small, cheap, entry-level 50cc scooter. Because of the brand, it has to be a super-scooter similar to the Aprilia SRV850 scooter. Very challenging to come up with something like that overnight.
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I think a small-displacement "sport"bike à la Ninja 300/CBR300R would be closer to the Ducati DNA. They could charge a healthy premium over the Japanese models and still sell 1.67 gazillion of them.
 
"Another weak sales year", my butt. Ducati posted eleven consecutive quarterly sales records, from 2008-2010 when all Japanese manufacturers were posting their biggest sales drops in their respective histories, in many cases. Suzuki didn't even export any 2010 models to the U.S., with the exception of a few dirt bikes, their 2009 overstock situation was so dire. Then, in 2012, Ducati posted a yearly 26% worldwide sales increase for all of 2011. Even bad news is still good - Q1 of 2013 represented their first sales drop - down 5% over Q1 of 2012, but that was the quarter where worldwide sales of bikes over 500cc fell 17%, and sales of bikes in Europe over 500cc fell 31%!! Seems to me like they're doing just fine.
 
CafeRay said:
R&D costs are high for any motorcycle, the multistrada R&D was $22M.
...
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Yes, but they already make motorcycles! So they can leverage existing R&D. A scooter is a little bit different (automatic transmission just to mention one thing). Does Ducati have any bike that is auto right now? They would have to spend more than 22M just to come up with a transmission that is decent.

Don't forget, Vespa has been making scooters for almost 70 years. They have a huge advantage, and they set the standard. Just as a side note, the transmission on a Vespa is thing of beauty.

Why did BMW decided NOT to develop their own engine/transmission? Because of the cost. It is easier to do the partnership with Kymco, and have the whole powertrain made in Taiwan.

And I see your point that they cannot keep selling Panigales forever... at the same time, why take the risk of entering into the scooter market? It is crowded and dominated by companies that have a huge lead. If things backfire, they would lose tons of money.

Or they could sell the "Ducati" brand to Taiwan, as I already posted... via a "partnership"... Taiwan supplies the machine, Ducati supplies some decals that say "ducati"... :rolleyes:
 
The sales "records" were Ducati records, from a company that was near bankruptcy and had very low sales. They got saved with the Monster series, and had no where to go but up.
They had some sales increases from new markets, but the overall trend is that the total sales of bikes like Ducati sells is going away, and teh entire company is now expanded and focused on >1L engine bikes. That's why there are all these rumors, and why they ARE making a smaller scrambler for 2015. Saying "we are doing well because we only dropped 5% when everyone dropped 17%" is riding a train to a wreck if you continue to ignore sales demographics.
Similarly, Triumph has posted a loss for 2013, and is expanding into new markets with smaller bikes. A 250 single is likely next year. Ducati does not make any small engine bikes any more.

Super Panigale Leggere Speciales etc. may "sell out" at 200 units, but that's not a business plan. Ducati surprised everyone with the Multistrada in 2003 - no one thought they would ever make a bike like that, but it once again saved the company.

These companies were addicted to high margin bike sales, they will have to face reality and start making smaller bikes with less of a badge tax.

They do have the Supermono from the mid-90s, which they never seriously marketed and sold only 65 units (because they only made enough to homologate for a racing series).

800px-Ducati_Supermono_2.jpg
 
Ducati is reasonably healthy at the moment and backed by a reasonably healthy company. Making a scooter sure isn't a stretch, they company started into the bike business with a moped conversion kit. They produced small CC bikes , scramblers and cruisers and everything in between before settling in as a boutique brand. They have co-branded everything on the planet, shoes, bicycles, cameras, watches and luggage, rebranding a scooter could be done over a cappuccino break. If they wanted to venture out and build a scooter, all the sub contractors for kymco, piaggio, adly, benelli, italjet, derbi, and the 20 Chinese and Korean brands would be all over making parts for them. Most of Europe does not commute by scooter, public transit is enormous, cheap, fast and reliable. Even the trains in Italy run on time today.
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