do left turn cagers who kill bikers always just get a slap on the wrist?

S

SkyRider

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i always hear this. left turn cager kills a biker, cager just gets a ticket.

BUT... i bet that if someone does the below he/she will probably get prosecuted:

- "accidently" pushes someone off a balcony from a building
- punches someone on the sidewalk and victim flies backwards onto the road and gets run over by a car.
- "accidently" knocks someone on train tracks, victim gets run over by train
- backing up the car and runs over a random pedestrian
- running a red light and kills a pedestrian
- lost control doing a donut in a parking law, running over a child

etc etc

what do ya thinking ppl? the law is a little f'ed up. why do left turn cagers/killers get off so easy?
 
Last edited:
Sorry to say, a lot of laws are a little f'ed up.
 
My Buddy was at a bar and some guy was hitting on his gf and he told the guy to **** off, later when they were outside the same guy started trying to lift his gf's skirt and grab her ***, My buddy pushed him and the guy got lippy and sucker punched him in the face, So my buddy hit him once and knocked him out and the guy busted his head on the ground and died and my buddy got 3.5yrs for manslaughter.

It was a complete accident yet he still got "Pen" time for it.
Yes it would still be assault and maybe 30 days in jail max. but he killed him and they tacked on years to his sentence, so Im not sure why they shouldn't do it to drivers as well?
 
jeffjones said:
My Buddy was at a bar and some guy was hitting on his gf and he told the guy to **** off, later when they were outside the same guy started trying to lift his gf's skirt and grab her ***, My buddy pushed him and the guy got lippy and sucker punched him in the face, So my buddy hit him once and knocked him out and the guy busted his head on the ground and died and my buddy got 3.5yrs for manslaughter.

It was a complete accident yet he still got "Pen" time for it.
Yes it would still be assault and maybe 30 days in jail max. but he killed him and they tacked on years to his sentence, so Im not sure why they shouldn't do it to drivers as well?
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He must have had a really ****** lawyer if the guy hit him first.
 
jeffjones said:
My Buddy was at a bar and some guy was hitting on his gf and he told the guy to **** off, later when they were outside the same guy started trying to lift his gf's skirt and grab her ***, My buddy pushed him and the guy got lippy and sucker punched him in the face, So my buddy hit him once and knocked him out and the guy busted his head on the ground and died and my buddy got 3.5yrs for manslaughter.

It was a complete accident yet he still got "Pen" time for it.
Yes it would still be assault and maybe 30 days in jail max. but he killed him and they tacked on years to his sentence, so Im not sure why they shouldn't do it to drivers as well?
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Did the gf still stay with him?
 
01cbr said:
He must have had a really ****** lawyer if the guy hit him first.
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If you use force on someone without intention to kill them and they die it's manslaughter.
He was also I very big guy (roids) that didn't really help his self defense case.

mindactivated said:
Did the gf still stay with him?
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She stuck around while he was in there but they broke up later on
 
SkyRider said:
i always hear this. left turn cager kills a biker, cager just gets a ticket.

BUT... i bet that if someone does the below he/she will probably get prosecuted:

- "accidently" pushes someone off a balcony from a building
- punches someone on the sidewalk and victim flies backwards onto the road and gets run over by a car.
- "accidently" knocks someone on train tracks, victim gets run over by train
- backing up the car and runs over a random pedestrian
- running a red light and kills a pedestrian
- lost control doing a donut in a parking law, running over a child

etc etc

what do ya thinking ppl? the law is a little f'ed up. why do left turn cagers/killers get off so easy?
Click to expand...

The simple answer was because the driver turning left had no reasonable expectation that by doing so he/she would kill someone.
 
Griffin said:
The simple answer was because the driver turning left had no reasonable expectation that by doing so he/she would kill someone.
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That's the problem right there. All laws in the HTA are void of mens rea, or the guilty mind. That's why "I wasn't aware I was speeding" was an acceptable defense.

I do not understand how "I didn't see the person" (aka I wasn't looking properly) is an acceptable defense in these often fatal cases.

That being said....accidents DO happen...I would hate to see a situation where someone is punished in a truly accidental situation. It's not an easy fix.
 
jeffjones said:
If you use force on someone without intention to kill them and they die it's manslaughter.
He was also I very big guy (roids) that didn't really help his self defense case.



She stuck around while he was in there but they broke up later on
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The fact that the guy hit him first should have made the self defense case.
 
01cbr said:
The fact that the guy hit him first should have made the self defense case.
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It's not that simple. You're only allowed to defend yourself in order to escape the assault on yourself. You're not supposed to continue the assault to "get even" or show how bad-*** you are. And there is a measure of force applied..you cannot kill someone because they slapped you. I don't know the details that came out in the trial, but generally, if you kill someone in a fight, you're going to jail.
 
invictus43 said:
It's not that simple. You're only allowed to defend yourself in order to escape the assault on yourself. You're not supposed to continue the assault to "get even" or show how bad-*** you are. And there is a measure of force applied..you cannot kill someone because they slapped you. I don't know the details that came out in the trial, but generally, if you kill someone in a fight, you're going to jail.
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He apparently hit the guy once, with his fist, no weapons.

If thats not self defense, i dont know what is.
 
01cbr said:
He apparently hit the guy once, with his fist, no weapons.

If thats not self defense, i dont know what is.
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That's his story. As I say, could he have just left? Was the guy chasing him? Did he feel his life was threatened? Was he much larger, strong and more skilled than his opponent? And he pushed first. He was found guilty and I'm quite confident the people who heard all the evidence are confident he was guilty.
 
invictus43 said:
That's his story. As I say, could he have just left? Was the guy chasing him? Did he feel his life was threatened? Was he much larger, strong and more skilled than his opponent? And he pushed first. He was found guilty and I'm quite confident the people who heard all the evidence are confident he was guilty.
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Could be as simple as a past record.
I can only comment on the story as I read it. The guy gets hit, he hits back.

I could shoot someone outside a club for spilling a drink on me and id likely get less than 5 years.
 
jeffjones said:
My Buddy was at a bar and some guy was hitting on his gf and he told the guy to **** off, later when they were outside the same guy started trying to lift his gf's skirt and grab her ***, My buddy pushed him and the guy got lippy and sucker punched him in the face, So my buddy hit him once and knocked him out and the guy busted his head on the ground and died and my buddy got 3.5yrs for manslaughter..

It was a complete accident yet he still got "Pen" time for it.
Yes it would still be assault and maybe 30 days in jail max. but he killed him and they tacked on years to his sentence, so Im not sure why they shouldn't do it to drivers as well?
Click to expand...


There's a val kilmer movie with that exact same story.
 
Griffin said:
The simple answer was because the driver turning left had no reasonable expectation that by doing so he/she would kill someone.
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wow really? same could be said about someone throwing a brick out of his downtown condo window. he had no reasonable expectation that it would fall on someone's head, i mean, how could he know someone would be on the street at 3 am?
 
invictus43 said:
That's his story. As I say, could he have just left? Was the guy chasing him? Did he feel his life was threatened? Was he much larger, strong and more skilled than his opponent? And he pushed first. He was found guilty and I'm quite confident the people who heard all the evidence are confident he was guilty.
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Alot of this is true.
He could have just left but instead he pushed the guy away from his gf before the guy through the cheapshot, Most self defense you don't push the person first. There were alot of witnesses that said the other guy hit him first and he just threw one punch and walked away.
He was a gym buff and a very big boy which also didn't help as he looks like a fighter.
He took responsibility for what happened and did his time.
 
jeffjones said:
Alot of this is true.
He could have just left but instead he pushed the guy away from his gf before the guy through the cheapshot, Most self defense you don't push the person first. There were alot of witnesses that said the other guy hit him first and he just threw one punch and walked away.
He was a gym buff and a very big boy which also didn't help as he looks like a fighter.
He took responsibility for what happened and did his time.
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Sorry, not trying to dump on your buddy. Things happen, heat of the moment. Just an unfortunate outcome that I'm sure he didn't possibly expect. And the other guy certainly was no angel.
 
Griffin said:
The simple answer was because the driver turning left had no reasonable expectation that by doing so he/she would kill someone.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure if you run over a cop, you will get more than a ticket so it isn't a simple answer.
 
01cbr said:
He must have had a really ****** lawyer if the guy hit him first.
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The only reason he didn't get 2nd degree murder was because the guy hit him first, which counts as provocation, therefore reducing 2nd degree murder to manslaughter.
 
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