Disobey stop sign | GTAMotorcycle.com

Disobey stop sign

ifiddles

Well-known member
Read the sticky on how to fight a ticket...would you fight a disobey stop sign?...carries 3 points :( never done this before...
 

Trials

Well-known member
Did you stop behind the line :| say yes. Then fight it,
I never fought one because I never got a ticket for it, or I would.


... dig this, the guy who rear ended me pleaded 'failure to yield in a stop and start situation' and the judge accepted it.
:| His front bumper was parked on top of my rear wheel.
 

Subenz

Well-known member
Clean record? First appearance always - speak to the prosecutor and ask for a reduced fine, something that would carry no points. If you don't like what they say you can always plead guilty or fight it afterwards.
 

nikos1965

Well-known member
Read the sticky on how to fight a ticket...would you fight a disobey stop sign?...carries 3 points :( never done this before...
I got one just like yours with the 3 demerits. Setup a court date and talked to the prosecutor. I was upfront and honest and told that Im not asking to drop the charge but if he could please lower to a lesser offence and demerits and he accepted. It was 2 points instead of 3 so you can say yes it was worth it. It was my first offence as well and my insurance went up quite a bit just so your not shocked later. Dont plead guilty whatever you do.
 

ifiddles

Well-known member
I got one just like yours with the 3 demerits. Setup a court date and talked to the prosecutor. I was upfront and honest and told that Im not asking to drop the charge but if he could please lower to a lesser offence and demerits and he accepted. It was 2 points instead of 3 so you can say yes it was worth it. It was my first offence as well and my insurance went up quite a bit just so your not shocked later. Dont plead guilty whatever you do.
@ nikos1965 did you choose option 2 or 3?
 

amp3d

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I got one just like yours with the 3 demerits. Setup a court date and talked to the prosecutor. I was upfront and honest and told that Im not asking to drop the charge but if he could please lower to a lesser offence and demerits and he accepted. It was 2 points instead of 3 so you can say yes it was worth it. It was my first offence as well and my insurance went up quite a bit just so your not shocked later. Dont plead guilty whatever you do.
You essentially pleaded guilty yourself tho...
 

FLSTC

Well-known member
Choose Option 3 'Request a trial'. I think there's a box to call the issuing officer as a witness.

On the trial date you'll get a chance to talk to the prosecutor before the trial. If your offence was not egregious in some way you'll most likely get an offer for another offence with differing fine and/or points.

136(1)(a) Disobey stop sign — fail to stop - has a set fine of $85, 3 MTO demerit points, and most-likely be considered a 'minor' offense by your insurance company.

They may offer (or you can request) 182(2) Disobey sign. This has the same set fine of $85, but no demerit points (you may want to confirm this), and possibly may not fall into the 'minor' offense category of your insurance company (you'd have to ask them).

On the trial date, you can always plead guilty to the original offense as per Option 1 on your ticket.


Here's the list of HTA offenses -
Schedule 43 – Last Updated: January 1, 2019 | Ontario Court of Justice

Here's a list of the demerit points MTO applies to specific offenses
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points

And here's a good guide as to what offences your insurance company considers minor vs major vs serious with subsequent driver rating impact: Do Tickets Affect Car Insurance? What Tickets Increase Insurance?
 
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FLSTC

Well-known member
update - 182(2) Disobey sign - has 2 MTO demerit points. Reference: Law Document English View

IIRC, there may be some other similarly-worded offence that they'll offer that isn't on the demerit point list... Some technicality. Probably still fall under a 'minor' conviction though from insurance perspective.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I got one just like yours with the 3 demerits. Setup a court date and talked to the prosecutor. I was upfront and honest and told that Im not asking to drop the charge but if he could please lower to a lesser offence and demerits and he accepted. It was 2 points instead of 3 so you can say yes it was worth it. It was my first offence as well and my insurance went up quite a bit just so your not shocked later. Dont plead guilty whatever you do.
Curious as to why you think that was worth the effort? Who cares about demerit points (especially given that it was your first offence)?

In my experience, for demerit points to matter, you really need to be an idiot or very unlucky. They stay on your abstract for two years. You get a warning letter at nine points, interview at 12 and suspension at 15. I know lots of people with zero to six active points, but very few with more than that.
 

r3r3r3

Well-known member
On the topic of stop signs: I read through the MTO website and it seems they never really define what a “stop” is on a motorcycle. Assuming you are able to safety yield the right of way, visually clear the intersection, and keep the bike at a dead stop is there actually anything that says you need to put a foot down?
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
On the topic of stop signs: I read through the MTO website and it seems they never really define what a “stop” is on a motorcycle. Assuming you are able to safety yield the right of way, visually clear the intersection, and keep the bike at a dead stop is there actually anything that says you need to put a foot down?
To my knowledge, not in Ontario but some US states, possibly Tennessee, both feet must touch the ground.
 

Baggsy

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I heard people claim they could stop without a foot down on a street bike, but I've never seen someone actually accomplish it.
They thought they stopped, they claimed they stopped, but their wheels never stopped rotating.
You're supposed to stop, check your mirrors, check both ways, and then proceed straight, or left, right, left, blindspot, then proceed through a turn.
Not many people could accomplish that.

I'd fight it, but then I am anal about stopping, to the point that it drives my wife bonkers sometimes.

If you did it, I'd say save your time, and work on improving your driving.
 

nikos1965

Well-known member
Choose Option 3 'Request a trial'. I think there's a box to call the issuing officer as a witness.

On the trial date you'll get a chance to talk to the prosecutor before the trial. If your offence was not egregious in some way you'll most likely get an offer for another offence with differing fine and/or points.

136(1)(a) Disobey stop sign — fail to stop - has a set fine of $85, 3 MTO demerit points, and most-likely be considered a 'minor' offense by your insurance company.

They may offer (or you can request) 182(2) Disobey sign. This has the same set fine of $85, but no demerit points (you may want to confirm this), and possibly may not fall into the 'minor' offense category of your insurance company (you'd have to ask them).

Disobey sign has 2 demerit points. Mine was disobey stop sign and dropped to the lesser. I know that because thats what they gave me and YES insurance companys consider this a minor offence but they do up your insurance even on first offence

On the trial date, you can always plead guilty to the original offense as per Option 1 on your ticket.


Here's the list of HTA offenses -
Schedule 43 – Last Updated: January 1, 2019 | Ontario Court of Justice

Here's a list of the demerit points MTO applies to specific offenses
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points

And here's a good guide as to what offences your insurance company considers minor vs major vs serious with subsequent driver rating impact: Do Tickets Affect Car Insurance? What Tickets Increase Insurance?
 

Trials

Well-known member
I heard people claim they could stop without a foot down on a street bike, but I've never seen someone actually accomplish it.
They thought they stopped, they claimed they stopped, but their wheels never stopped rotating.
...
lol I kicked a** on my K100RS in the rally slow races.
 

Riceburner

Well-known member
I do my checks before fully stopping. Then can stop with my feet on the pegs. Full stop, no wheel rotation....for a brief point in time....since there is no set time I must be stopped. Only when going straight thru after. Most of the time at least 1 foot touches the ground.
 

hedo2002

Well-known member
Site Supporter
There is nothing within the HTA, which states you are REQUIRED to put your foot down. The primary reason for this is that the HTA, as are MOST regulations written in vague terminology, to cover the widest possible number of scenarios. Also the HTA is primarily focus on the largest segment of vehicles on the road, (cars and trucks).

So, doesn't mean you can't be issued a violation for not stopping with your foot down, (especially if the officer is haviong a bad day. Let the JP decide...
 

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