Cylinder Base Condition | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cylinder Base Condition

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Rockwell

Well-known member
Just getting around to working on this thing after a two-year delay after returning to school. Taking a closer look and wondering about the condition of the base near this coolant gallery (or whatever it's called). I have new steel gaskets, however, I am wondering if I need some additional gasket sealant and, of so, which kind (I found a ton of different kinds but not sure what to use - high temp, oil-resistant, aerobic/anaerobic?, silicone or RTV gasket maker?)

Backstory - I had coolant leaking into the engine which prompted me to take everything apart.
 

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Rockwell said:
Just getting around to working on this thing after a two-year delay after returning to school. Taking a closer look and wondering about the condition of the base near this coolant gallery (or whatever it's called). I have new steel gaskets, however, I am wondering if I need some additional gasket sealant and, of so, which kind (I found a ton of different kinds but not sure what to use - high temp, oil-resistant, aerobic/anaerobic?, silicone or RTV gasket maker?)

Backstory - I had coolant leaking into the engine which prompted me to take everything apart.
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There appears to be corrosion and some porosity in the casting, I've seen that happen to aluminum engines running incorrect antifreeze or just water. I'll bet the cylinder bottom needs attention too. Based on the ring around the opening your original gasket probably had a Viton seal painted onto the area around the jacket, incorrect coolant got under that and corrosion happened. A replacement gasket may not fill that void for long, if at all. The right fix is to take it to an engine machine shop.

A backyard fix would be to use JB weld or aluminum brazing with Muzzy or AL3 rods and a propane torch. (I love that **** for repairing aluminum).

The cheap and dirty would be to goop the wider area with a copper spray gasket and hope sealing the broader area will hold.
 
I'm with MM. A low budget fix of JB weld or more gorilla snot upon assembly.
 
Mad Mike said:
There appears to be corrosion and some porosity in the casting, I've seen that happen to aluminum engines running incorrect antifreeze or just water. I'll bet the cylinder bottom needs attention too. Based on the ring around the opening your original gasket probably had a Viton seal painted onto the area around the jacket, incorrect coolant got under that and corrosion happened. A replacement gasket may not fill that void for long, if at all. The right fix is to take it to an engine machine shop.

A backyard fix would be to use JB weld or aluminum brazing with Muzzy or AL3 rods and a propane torch. (I love that **** for repairing aluminum).

The cheap and dirty would be to goop the wider area with a copper spray gasket and hope sealing the broader area will hold.
Click to expand...

After the first year of having the bike, I used Engine Ice coolant, which was recommended by a bunch of people with the same engine. I'm not sure if it was the wrong stuff to use, but this is what it is from the manufacturer's website:
Engine Ice is a propylene glycol-based antifreeze and coolant. It provides boil-over protection to 254F and freeze protection to -7F. Engine Ice uses propylene glycol as the base because of its performance and environmental benefits. It is considerably less toxic than ethylene glycol found in many other antifreeze/coolants in the powersports field. The propylene glycol base, combined with additive packages that offer corrosion and wear protection, along with reverse osmosis water exceeding ASTM D3306 standards, produces a superior final product.
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I took my heads to a machine shop last year to have the heads, pistons and valves cleaned, surfaces checked and then reassembled. They said that they didn't need the engine block. I emailed them the pictures yesterday asking if I should use some sort of sealant, and they responded:
wouldnt hurt. moto seal or equiv. not generic rtv
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A bunch of people recommended Hylomar M or Universal Blue, which are non-setting, non-hardening jointing compounds.

Hylomar M
Product page
Product sheet

Hylomar Universal Blue
Product page
Product sheet

This is an old bike (2007 bought new in 2009) with fairly high km (100,000 km) and I am trying to see if I can rescue it with minimal cost. The work at the machine shop last year already cost me $1,100, I have about $1,000 in parts and I'm just finishing up a two-year program at university and haven't worked in a while, so I'm already over my budget.

Do you think the Hylomar would be enough, or should I try some JB Weld as well (the suggestion for aluminum brazing with Muzzy or AL3 rods and a propane torch seems beyond what I can do)?
 
Rockwell said:
After the first year of having the bike, I used Engine Ice coolant, which was recommended by a bunch of people with the same engine. I'm not sure if it was the wrong stuff to use, but this is what it is from the manufacturer's website:


I took my heads to a machine shop last year to have the heads, pistons and valves cleaned, surfaces checked and then reassembled. They said that they didn't need the engine block. I emailed them the pictures yesterday asking if I should use some sort of sealant, and they responded:


A bunch of people recommended Hylomar M or Universal Blue, which are non-setting, non-hardening jointing compounds.

Hylomar M
Product page
Product sheet

Hylomar Universal Blue
Product page
Product sheet

This is an old bike (2007 bought new in 2009) with fairly high km (100,000 km) and I am trying to see if I can rescue it with minimal cost. The work at the machine shop last year already cost me $1,100, I have about $1,000 in parts and I'm just finishing up a two-year program at university and haven't worked in a while, so I'm already over my budget.

Do you think the Hylomar would be enough, or should I try some JB Weld as well (the suggestion for aluminum brazing with Muzzy or AL3 rods and a propane torch seems beyond what I can do)?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't recommend using sealant to fill holes or cracks, particularly those under pressure (as is your coolant system).

The JB weld is used to fill the area that has been corroded away. A clean flat mating surface will seal better against coolant seepage. If might work OK without filling the void, but for $5 worth of JB, I'd do just to give the repair a fighting chance.

First fill in the depressions with JB then use a fine straight file to make the surface true to the rest of the block (or cylinder).

Next, I'd use new gaskets and a thin bead of Permatex Blue around the water channels on each side of the gasket. (Permatex Blue is Hylomar Universal-- they are the same goo, Permatex rebrands Hylomar Blue)
 
Sounds good. Canadian Tire has JB Weld, so I think I'll pick some of that up. Is there any specific variant that is best for high temperature applications?

I have brand new metal gaskets and I was able to find some Hylomar Universal Blue, so I'll use a bit of that as well.

Thanks for the info!
 
These two are the same when cured, I like "SteelStik" because you can really force it into voids with your fingers, it's like playdough. Regular JB Weld is awesome too, but a bit messier to work with because it's thinner and sticky -- in between 5-minute epoxy and like spot putty. Yes - they are both compatible with aluminum.
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If you're careful and level out the filling carefully, fairing it out with a small flat file will be easy.

Pretend you're a dentist doing a filling on your own teeth. The more careful you are with the filling, the less time amnd effort is spent cleaning up with the Dremel (but don't use a Dremel, use a flat-file).
 
Sorry @Rockwell , gorilla snot is just a nickname for silicone sealant.

And let's be clear. 2007 is not an old bike. I ride an 06 klr and do not think of it as old. The 76 Supersport I'm putting together right now MIGHT be considered old, but since it has triple disc brakes I wouldn't even go that far.
 
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Mad Mike said:
If you're careful and level out the filling carefully, fairing it out with a small flat file will be easy.
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Just sose we're all on the same page here... a modern bike with a metal head gasket has an allowable deviation from flat of +/- 0.001" or 0.0254mm... and he's going to do this what? A hand file? Sandpaper?
 
timtune said:
Sorry @Rockwell , gorilla snot is just a nickname for silicone sealant.

And let's be clear. 2007 is not an old bike. I ride an 06 klr and do not think of it as old. The 76 Supersport I'm putting together right now MIGHT be considered old, but since it has triple disc brakes I wouldn't even go that far.
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I was born in '77, I guess that makes me old. :p

I meant my bike was an older bike (15 years from production), as opposed to something relatively new, and I have about 100,000 km on it, most of which I put on between 2011-2014 during a big (almost two-year long) trip. It has some sentimental value, which is part of the reason why I am trying to get it running again. If all goes well, I might actually have it back on the road next spring (just finished 2 years of teachers college and can't afford the insurance and gas right now).
 
Rockwell said:
I was born in '77, I guess that makes me old. :p

I meant my bike was an older bike (15 years from production), as opposed to something relatively new, and I have about 100,000 km on it, most of which I put on between 2011-2014 during a big (almost two-year long) trip. It has some sentimental value, which is part of the reason why I am trying to get it running again. If all goes well, I might actually have it back on the road next spring (just finished 2 years of teachers college and can't afford the insurance and gas right now).
Click to expand...
You ARE NOT old. I was born in 62 and I'm barely middle aged.
 
Do the rest of us know make, model, year of this (in case it has known issues or if someone has known solutions that are specific to it)? Minor digging, including in prior threads, suggests that the rest of us have NEVER been told what this bike is!
 
bitzz said:
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Just sose we're all on the same page here... a modern bike with a metal head gasket has an allowable deviation from flat of +/- 0.001" or 0.0254mm... and he's going to do this what? A hand file? Sandpaper?
Click to expand...
This a base gasket mating surface. Surely it's not as critical as the head.
 
Also, are we looking at the surface for the base gasket, or the head gasket?

I see no evidence of "fire ring" imprints that would be indicative of being a head-gasket surface.

When you lay the gasket on top of that surface, does the sealing surface cover up that chewed-up area, or is the sealing surface around the perimeter of the chewed-up area?

I have a funny feeling that this is the base gasket, and the shape of the hole in the gasket follows the shape of the outside of the chewed-up area (thus fully exposing the chewed-up area to coolant) in which case, put it together and send it (and use the proper coolant going forward to avoid further corrosion).

If I'm wrong then please advise.
 
Brian P said:
Do the rest of us know make, model, year of this (in case it has known issues or if someone has known solutions that are specific to it)? Minor digging, including in prior threads, suggests that the rest of us have NEVER been told what this bike is!
Click to expand...
It's a 2007 KTM 990 Adventure. I've been a member on Advrider since around that time, and I haven't heard of this specific issue before, and I've followed the forum specific to the 990/950 since then. I posted this there as well, but the specific forum has been a bit of a ghost town since they stopped production on the 990. I'm hoping for a reboot of the specific model. By that time, I'll hopefully be working and having summers off.

This is the base gasket surface. Heads were brought into a machine shop last year, cleaned and resurfaced, new valve springs and valve keepers as well. I think I used proper coolant, but maybe I didn't change coolant frequently enough. And, you are right - the shape of the corrosion does follow the shape of the gasket (see the attached image). Most of it is on the inside of the gasket material, but a very small bit of the corrosion seems to be slightly under where the gasket will sit when everything is torqued down.

1649201654441 copy.jpg
 
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