Crossing solid yellow lines

[hedo2002]

From a legal perspective, the driver would likely be facing a charge of Unsafe lane change, with that I agree. But from the insurer's FDR's it would at best be a 50/50, (sideswipe type of collision), to the driver hitting the merging vehicle from the rear, being declared as a at fault collision. From an insurer's point of view, if you rear ended the vehicle, then YOU should have observed the vehicle and had you been operating in a "safe and prudent manner" you should have avoided the collision.

The legal and insurance rules are often at polar opposites.

An unsafe lane change at much lower speed, in front of an approaching vehicle going much faster in the adjacent lane, is an example of the vehicle that was hit from behind being responsible for the collision.

 

[unL33T]

To be fair even the laws contradict each other sometimes. For example speeding to pass is illegal (speeding charge) but passing too slowly is actually even more illegal (stunting charge).

 

[Mad Mike]

From a legal perspective, the driver would likely be facing a charge of Unsafe lane change, with that I agree. But from the insurer's FDR's it would at best be a 50/50, (sideswipe type of collision), to the driver hitting the merging vehicle from the rear, being declared as a at fault collision. From an insurer's point of view, if you rear ended the vehicle, then YOU should have observed the vehicle and had you been operating in a "safe and prudent manner" you should have avoided the collision.

The legal and insurance rules are often at polar opposites.

Under FDR, in this situation the lane changing vehicle takes 100% fault, charged or not. The middle situatio happened to me.

FDR 10.4:

(4) If the incident occurs when automobile “B” is changing lanes, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.

Diagram

Tip: Keep this link (R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668: FAULT DETERMINATION RULES) on your phone, if you are ever in an accident make sure you know how to correctly sketch the scenario on the police report.

 

[hedo2002]

Mad Mike NONE of those situations apply to what is being discussed. The closest, would be the second diagram, except that vehicle B would have completed the lane change and is then rear ended by vehicle A

 

[unL33T]

Mad Mike NONE of those situations apply to what is being discussed. The closest, would be the second diagram, except that vehicle B would have completed the lane change and is then rear ended by vehicle A

I think R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 10 (6) is what we were talking about?

Some of these are stupid. Someone can ram you as you're turning left while they are driving in the wrong lane and somehow you are both at fault?

I also like how if you're stopped with another vehicle stopped behind you and someone rams the rear vehicle that last vehicle is the only one at fault but then if a few more vehicles are involved they just give up and you're all at fault, lol.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I think R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 10 (6) is what we were talking about?

Some of these are stupid. Someone can ram you as you're turning left while they are driving in the wrong lane and somehow you are both at fault?

I also like how if you're stopped with another vehicle stopped behind you and someone rams the rear vehicle that last vehicle is the only one at fault but then if a few more vehicles are involved they just give up and you're all at fault, lol.

I had exactly this happen to me in 2001. I was turning left into a private parking lot. A cabbie picked up a fare and pulled away from the curb. For some reason he thought that my left turn signal was a right turn signal and tried to pass me in the oncoming traffic lane. He mounted the curb as I turned left and hit my truck on the sidewalk. Insurance found me 50% liable. The officer I reported the incident to said that he'd have charged the cabbie.

The capper on the whole thing was when I appealed it to the ombudsman of my insurer. The response was that they would have found me to be 100% at fault, but *the rules* only allowed 50%.

 

[meme]

I live on a hwy where I have to turn left into a driveway. Right after a set of lights, just before a long straight.

Peeps gun it off the light, pull into oncoming lane and I'm up 4 cars about to turn in....nightmare each and every time. My responsibility to make sure no one is coming up beside me.

Stupidness

 

[unL33T]

I had exactly this happen to me in 2001. I was turning left into a private parking lot. A cabbie picked up a fare and pulled away from the curb. For some reason he thought that my left turn signal was a right turn signal and tried to pass me in the oncoming traffic lane. He mounted the curb as I turned left and hit my truck on the sidewalk. Insurance found me 50% liable. The officer I reported the incident to said that he'd have charged the cabbie.

The capper on the whole thing was when I appealed it to the ombudsman of my insurer. The response was that they would have found me to be 100% at fault, but *the rules* only allowed 50%.

Wow that sucks.

Kind of reminds me of a lady I know that recently had an incident where someone tried to change into an exit ramp lane after missing the exit (crossing the solid white lines) so she stopped and let him in. Then he brake checked her for no reason (after she was just nice enough to let him do his silly maneuver) immediately after getting into her lane and she rear ended him. Had the whole thing on video. Brake checking is illegal. Cops refused to even look at the video. Insurance told her unless he was charged for the brake checking she would be found at fault for rear ending him. She went back and tried to get the police to watch the video again and they told her to stop pressing the issue or they'll charge her with following too closely and still not watch the video. From what I saw in the video the way the guy was driving looked like he was drunk.

 

[unL33T]

Although not marked as such, (because it is a busy road and there are too many turns, into businesses etc), but it is a left turn lane. Personally, IF I were to ride, (for more than say 100'), I would do so at or less than the traffic flowing in the lane to my right. This is because no one EXPECTS, a vehicle to be "driving" along in the left turn lane, and as such they are even less likely to do a shoulder check, then they normally would, (so basically NEVER...lol)

If seen by a cop, (who is hungry for a ticket, especially if your travelling faster than the surrounding traffic), could throw a S 172 charge your way. I would have to scour the HTA to see if there is a specific charge for driving in that lane, although a pretty good defense would be I was just about to make a left turn into XYZ business when the officer stopped me.

The police do this too. Almost every left turn I encountered today had all the traffic lined up beyond the end of the left turn lane into the division between directions (this is not part of the left turn lane), and often into left turn lanes for the other direction. Often see police, ambulances, firetrucks, city vehicles, etc all lined up with them. I'm tempted to try to enter the left turn lane at the proper location but obviously this upsets everyone that was already waiting in their non-lane.

 

[Evoex]

Wow that sucks.

Kind of reminds me of a lady I know that recently had an incident where someone tried to change into an exit ramp lane after missing the exit (crossing the solid white lines) so she stopped and let him in. Then he brake checked her for no reason (after she was just nice enough to let him do his silly maneuver) immediately after getting into her lane and she rear ended him. Had the whole thing on video. Brake checking is illegal. Cops refused to even look at the video. Insurance told her unless he was charged for the brake checking she would be found at fault for rear ending him. She went back and tried to get the police to watch the video again and they told her to stop pressing the issue or they'll charge her with following too closely and still not watch the video. From what I saw in the video the way the guy was driving looked like he was drunk.

lol what? What possible evidence do they have? Did she not escalate to a supervisor?

 

[Baggsy]

The police do this too. Almost every left turn I encountered today had all the traffic lined up beyond the end of the left turn lane into the division between directions (this is not part of the left turn lane), and often into left turn lanes for the other direction. Often see police, ambulances, firetrucks, city vehicles, etc all lined up with them. I'm tempted to try to enter the left turn lane at the proper location but obviously this upsets everyone that was already waiting in their non-lane.

If you're going to do that, you need to stop inches from them.
Since they're stupid enough to be going the wrong way, you might not trust them enough for this, and will need to record it.
If you've crept in enough, the following cars won't be able to get into your space, but the ones following you will.

Don't ask how I know this.

 

[unL33T]

lol what? What possible evidence do they have? Did she not escalate to a supervisor?

Nah they scared her off and she dropped the whole thing.

 

[Relax]

Although not marked as such, (because it is a busy road and there are too many turns, into businesses etc), but it is a left turn lane. Personally, IF I were to ride, (for more than say 100'), I would do so at or less than the traffic flowing in the lane to my right. This is because no one EXPECTS, a vehicle to be "driving" along in the left turn lane, and as such they are even less likely to do a shoulder check, then they normally would, (so basically NEVER...lol)

If seen by a cop, (who is hungry for a ticket, especially if your travelling faster than the surrounding traffic), could throw a S 172 charge your way. I would have to scour the HTA to see if there is a specific charge for driving in that lane, although a pretty good defense would be I was just about to make a left turn into XYZ business when the officer stopped me.

My wife was charged with "Fail to drive in marked lane" when she did this trying to turn left onto Central Pkwy E in Mississauga from Elginton. I took it to court hoping to beat it at trial, but won because the officer didn't show up twice in a row. I never did get disclosure, so I have no idea what he was thinking. Apparently he was pulling everyone over that was in that lane trying to turn left.

 

[Joe Bass]

If you're going to do that, you need to stop inches from them.
Since they're stupid enough to be going the wrong way, you might not trust them enough for this, and will need to record it.
If you've crept in enough, the following cars won't be able to get into your space, but the ones following you will.

Don't ask how I know this.

This sounds like the issue I have to deal with every week to get my kid to his swimming lessons.
Unbelievable the amount of that I encounter when trying to enter the left turn lane for the direction that I'm going.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[unL33T]

My wife was charged with "Fail to drive in marked lane" when she did this trying to turn left onto Central Pkwy E in Mississauga from Elginton. I took it to court hoping to beat it at trial, but won because the officer didn't show up twice in a row. I never did get disclosure, so I have no idea what he was thinking. Apparently he was pulling everyone over that was in that lane trying to turn left.

This is the type of thing I'm worried about. Everyone does it and if you try to drive "properly" it would obviously piss off everyone but if you go with the masses you could be charged.

Kind of like how you're not supposed to speed while passing but if you don't it's likely going to be a very long and dangerous pass unless the person you're passing is barely moving.

 

[ReSTored]

I think the take away here is that both insurance companies and the police seem to have a lot of discretion in how the rules are applied and if it goes in a direction you don't like you have little to nil recourse. You have to balance the time & frustration saved by pulling early into what will become a turning lane vs. the risk of an accident / ticket and the potential financial consequences of this.

 

[Relax]

I think the take away here is that both insurance companies and the police seem to have a lot of discretion in how the rules are applied and if it goes in a direction you don't like you have little to nil recourse. You have to balance the time & frustration saved by pulling early into what will become a turning lane vs. the risk of an accident / ticket and the potential financial consequences of this.

That and leave yourself an escape route if it turns out There’s an ambush. A bunch of drivers in front of my wife were able to pull out of the “turning” lane and go straight instead, avoiding the trap. But I know, easier said than done.

 

[unL33T]

Maybe I'll just be the dick that squeezes in where the turning lane actually starts. Gets me ahead anyway, just pisses off everyone already in the lane and those that want to go straight that will now be stuck behind me. Although someone was arguing with me somewhere else online that it's illegal to stop to get into a turning lane or exit lane that's backed up so maybe that won't actually help anything either. He seemed to think by law if you cannot enter the turning lane you must continue straight until you find a place to turn that isn't backed up. Sounded like bull to me.

 

[Trials]

Maybe I'll just be the dick that squeezes in where the turning lane actually starts. Gets me ahead anyway, just pisses off everyone already in the lane and those that want to go straight that will now be stuck behind me. Although someone was arguing with me somewhere else online that it's illegal to stop to get into a turning lane or exit lane that's backed up so maybe that won't actually help anything either. He seemed to think by law if you cannot enter the turning lane you must continue straight until you find a place to turn that isn't backed up. Sounded like bull to me.

I can't say I ever felt like it would cost me a ticket, but I have certainly done exactly that when it felt like the only safe thing to do.

 

[Relax]

I ended up in this scenario yesterday following a police car, which followed what everyone else was doing. I recorded it on my dashcam and should probably save it for the future. Will upload if I can remember to actually grab it before it gets overwritten.