counter steering

ifiddles

ifiddles

Well-known member
ok, so i did a search here and no posts came up so i'm hoping this isn't a duplicate...

here goes...into my second season and have put on just over 5100 km since last may/11...not much but i don't get a chance to ride during the week, mostly in the summer when i'm off...needless to say and i hate to admit it, but counter steering still perplexes me...i remember the whole mechanics and physics behind it but i also remember how during my course (which was done on dirt bikes btw) it was a heck of a lot easier to do than on my cruiser...

i'm guessing it's because of several things:
1) my own comfort level going around corners
2) dirtbikes are lighter and easier to manouver and less input is needed to get a big output
3) the rake/trail on a dirtbike is less than on my cruiser and thus counter steering works better/is more effective on that (and a sport bike) than on a cruiser

my question is this...obviously i have to practice more but should i put more input when i counter steer or should i lean more?...i find i lean more than i did on the dirtbikes and was thinking i'm doing it wrong...

any advice?

ivana

p.s...i ride a kawasaki vulcan 500, which weighs 472 lbs wet and i weigh a whopping 103 lbs (wet)...
 
I'm in my second season as well and have done about 8,000kms so far, mostly highway, and to be honest i really don't notice when i'm doing counter steering, or at least don't find myself thinking about it. I ride a honda magna 750 which is about 520lbs wet and i'm 240ish.

The first few times i took corners on highways going 100k or more i was a little nervous because i was thinking of how important the instructors told us it was to push out in the other direction etc. but i really don't find myself doing that, maybe i'm not leaning enough, but i'm making the turns just fine. it's just a feeling when you go into a turn, i just look way ahead like we were instructed and ride into it.

I think maybe on cruisers since we don't bank as much counter steering applies less to us than it does to guys on sports bikes who are dragging knees into corners. If you watch bike racing videos you can definitely see them pushing out and counter steering as they turn and lean way down, but if you watch vids of cruisers on highways or going through twisties you don't notice it so much, just looks like they are turning naturally. I think it all depends on the tightness of the corner and how much lean you need going into it. Be good to hear from someone who has ridden both styles of bikes, on which requires more counter steer, or which situations require it more, like over a certain speed/angle of corner?
 
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Hi Ivana,

In 5100km, I'm positive you've counter-steered much more than you've given yourself credit for. All lane changes/turns above 25km per hour require counter-steering to do it. Try just leaning your body without adding input at the steering wheel. The bike will probably slowly drift to the side you are leaning. To change lanes/turn properly, you have to counter steer. You just might not recognize that you are doing it.

Cheers,
K
 
turning in every vehicle is an "opposite action" even in cars. when you turn your steering wheel left, science tells your car to go right but technology keeps it going left, in the same direction of your steering wheel turn..

some people steer their motorcycle by applying down force to the handle bar and leaning the bike that way.

for a right turn they will apply downward pressure on the right handle bar or upward pressure on the left handle bar. and lean the bike. i used to do this

this maybe what the OP does.

however what you will find OP is that thr more you convert that downward/vertical pressure to a horizontal/forward pressure the more sensitive/easier the bike gets to turning.

so instead of pressing down with your right hand to turn right, start by pressing 45 degrees forward as if your hand is pushing the right hand grip to just in front of your tire ahead of you.

and then try pushin the same hand straight horizontal as if you are reaching forward. you will find your bike responds immedeatly to the turn by turning the opposite way you are pushing. it will respond fAster, quicker with less input and effort. as opposed to pushing down or at 45 degrees. it will take a mm of movement to turn the bike.

most people get confused because they think..," hey if i am pushing forward then arent i trying to turn the bike the opposite way?"

this is because everyone is used to a car. but steering is actually an opposite action. in airplanes, in boats the rudder goes one wat and boat and plane leans other way.

this is the same in a car. but because there is four wheels and shocks it takes more force to do this.

the more high end cars distribute the weight and fight back against the science of turning and are able to take faster turns. in reality when you turn the wheel left your car wants to go right.

when you drive a car and you turn left on the steering wheel ... science is actually pushing your car and EVERYTHING in it to the opposite direction of the way you are turning. but you are on 4 wheels and have shocks and dont feel it much.

put a box of tissues on your dash or back window and make a left turn and watch the tissue box slide right.

if you are going 100km in your car and turn the wheel 2" to the left then you will turn left. but if you crank the stearing 12" to the left. you will flip and role your car to the right (opopsite direction of wheel turn) this is because the force of nature/science is too much for the stability technology of the car and it goes into true steering.

on a bike at only 50km if you turn the handle bar 1 mm the left science will make your bike turn right but 2 inches to the left and you will flip/roll/high side to the right.

its the same thing but the bike is more sensitive and in tune with science and nature
 
Ivana,
As a fellow vulcan rider I can agree with CB on one thing... You're probably giving the handlebars down force rather than true counter steering. I catch myself doing it all the time. If you do convert to a more horizontal force you'll notice right away that our bikes are actually REALLY LIGHT for a cruiser frame. It's kinda scary how light they get.
I've been riding for just over a month. During that month I've put on over 6000 km. At first I really though about counter steering. I mean I focused hard on trying to make sure that I was counter steering. What I very soon realized is that if I just relaxed a little bit I didn't have to worry so much about it. The reason for this is because our bikes are designed to be nimble. If you even think about the counter steer, the bike is suddenly leaning over whipping around the corner (not so severe as a sport but still... I feared for my mufflers for a few days).

Just remember that if you push a little the bike will lean a little. Push a little more and it leans a lot more. If you're finding you're putting a lot of force to get a little lean, then let your back fall back a bit, you'll get a little more straight armed and the force will be converted to horizontal for you. A few days of that and your confidence will be up.
We'll have to get together at some point and go for a cruise. I used to live out that way, Speyside is close and has some fantastic corners for you to practice both slow speed and high speed turns. You won't counter steer on slow corners. You'll do it without even realizing it at first on the fast.
 
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