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Brilliance of honda
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
bigpoppa
Well-known member
Yall are picking the wrong example of fragile here.
The Laverda SF, SFC and Jota are the most over engineered bikes on offer... and was designed to look like a Honda 305
These things were assembled using the best parts available, regardless of cost. Denso clocks, Bosch electrics, Lockheed brakes, Ceriani suspension and the two cylinders had 5 main bearings.
The SF was strong enough that Evil Kenevil used one, when he bought his own bikes before he was sponsored by HD.
... and I'm pretty sure compound rear suspension with one shock was a Yamaha thing with the YZ "monoshock"
don't forget the H2R H2 -series
Most definitely *NOT* an appliance:
Pretty sure they are referring to modern models.Most definitely *NOT* an appliance:
Relax
Well-known member
I never understood why some bikes have the two swapped. And it's not a brand issue - different models within a brand can have different locations. At best, you look silly honking your horn when trying to cancel the turn. At worst, your horn is silent as you hold down the turn signal cancel.
I'm arguably the biggest Honda guy on this site, and even I wouldn't go that far.
What I WILL say is that, they may not always be the "best" in every single category or model, but the odds are very good that you will NEVER go wrong with ANY Honda product. car, bike, atv, power equipment.
TK4
Well-known member
Like 1970s Laverdas ?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Over engineered or under engineered? Assembling a bunch of expensive performance parts is not always the answer to building something great. Japanese manufacturers engineers the systems themselves with a keen focus on interoperability and dependability.
The Laverda SF v Honda CB750 is a good study. In the 70's Laverda studied after Honda, seeking to capture some of their reliability and even some of their styling. They modeled the engine off the 305, used Bosch and had Suzuki and Nippon/Denso engineer the rest of the electrics to be on parr with Honda. They copied Honda's brakes by first replacing Gileras with a single disk, then later copying Honda duals. They turned out to be nearly as dependable as the Honda they were targeting - but they couldn't dial in suspension, clutches, transmission -- the press picked up the weaknesses, 'Cycle World might have put it best -- a flawed masterpiece."
Also, Kenievel rode Triumphs until he was sponsored by Laverda America in 1969. He was recuperating from a nasty crash, he never performed a notable stunt using a Laverda, they were used only as props and as his street bike. Kneviel dropped Laverda after 1 season, he never jumped one in a show. In 1970 he switched to an HD XR750, then bike used on all his notable stunts.
you forgot Ridgeline...Really?
Dirty Frank
Well-known member
If memory serves even Cycle Canada agrees with you they called it a "tool for professionals" when comparing it to the CBR at the time.Most definitely *NOT* an appliance:
They thought the CBR was fun tho.
Priller
Well-known member
To me, Honda was magic for a long time up until the mid-'00s. They simultaneously made the dead-reliable tools for peoples day-to-day lives while also spreading their wing(s) in all sorts of experimental directions. The same company that built solid rocks like the ST1100 also went nuts and made the NR750 or Rune (check used prices on them if you think they were a dud). The RC30 sums it up best: a beautifully engineered machine built to win races (and it won a lot) that was also amazing as a street bike, incredibly reliable, and stunning to boot.
Somewhere along the way, though, they forgot the wacko and experimental stuff and just made the reliable stuff. The OG CBR900RR redefined sportbikes, but from 2008 on, the bikes were bland and ugly. Only the latest pirate edition has brought any desirability back to the model. They seem to be finding some of their spark lately, though that may also be me aging into finding bikes like the Africa Twin sexy...
It might be to simple to say the death of Soichiro was the culprit, with the echoes of his vision taking over a decade to dissipate, but they have felt an awful lot like the dullest of corporations over the past 15 years. I'd love to see them do more design exercises like the Rune or thought experiments like the NR, even if they're not to everyone's taste. Sure, they did that GP bike a few years ago, but that wasn't imaginative or creative, it was the opposite.
Somewhere along the way, though, they forgot the wacko and experimental stuff and just made the reliable stuff. The OG CBR900RR redefined sportbikes, but from 2008 on, the bikes were bland and ugly. Only the latest pirate edition has brought any desirability back to the model. They seem to be finding some of their spark lately, though that may also be me aging into finding bikes like the Africa Twin sexy...
It might be to simple to say the death of Soichiro was the culprit, with the echoes of his vision taking over a decade to dissipate, but they have felt an awful lot like the dullest of corporations over the past 15 years. I'd love to see them do more design exercises like the Rune or thought experiments like the NR, even if they're not to everyone's taste. Sure, they did that GP bike a few years ago, but that wasn't imaginative or creative, it was the opposite.
That yours? It's got all the obligatory tasteful Stage 2 upgrades (Scotts damper, Ohlins suspension front and rear, Sato pipes and rearsets, DucHunter rad fins, Hayden stickers)...Most definitely *NOT* an appliance:
I guess indicative of moving toward bland corporate was dumping all the independent Honda Motorcycle dealers and moving the category to the second floor of the auto dealers......like that realllllly worked.
When Honda focuses as they did with the CRF450 they are unstoppable. After getting tired of Yamaha and the YZ250 winning everything Honda won every race the next year.
Some of their superbikes,...the Fireblade were top drawer and innovations like C-ABS straight from the track to consumer bikes.
They reallllllly can engineer - pricing?? ...not so much ,..
Yamaha taught the them all a lesson with the triples at amazing prices and performancel
Honda got the middle entry level spot on with success of the CB500 series from get go tho the 7xx series was a flop ...again well engineered but a motorcycle with a hard rev limiter at 6200 rpm ....ugh. I'm newly impressed with the price/performance of the CB300 as well.
I'd have to say tho the motorcycle as a commodity is the rule these days with Honda rather than "brilliance".
When Honda focuses as they did with the CRF450 they are unstoppable. After getting tired of Yamaha and the YZ250 winning everything Honda won every race the next year.
Some of their superbikes,...the Fireblade were top drawer and innovations like C-ABS straight from the track to consumer bikes.
They reallllllly can engineer - pricing?? ...not so much ,..
Yamaha taught the them all a lesson with the triples at amazing prices and performancel
Honda got the middle entry level spot on with success of the CB500 series from get go tho the 7xx series was a flop ...again well engineered but a motorcycle with a hard rev limiter at 6200 rpm ....ugh. I'm newly impressed with the price/performance of the CB300 as well.
I'd have to say tho the motorcycle as a commodity is the rule these days with Honda rather than "brilliance".
JTR
Well-known member
I'd have to absolutely agree that their pricing falls way flat. For example, my shadow was $500 more than the comparable HD Street 750. Currently the rebel 1100 is $500 more than an Iron 1200. Gold wing starts $800 more than a Road/Street Glide. Which is funny because people complain about Harley prices.
TK4
Well-known member
Let me rephrase - it has a brilliant motor saddled with a p.o.s. rolling chassis.
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