Blank frame with no VIN, HELP! | GTAMotorcycle.com

Blank frame with no VIN, HELP!

D

ducksinc

New member
Hey, so I'm in a bit of a predicament. Thought I'd rant and ask for some advice.

I had to replace the frame on my CBR. I ordered a new frame from a Honda parts dealer in the states that came without a VIN. The vin wasn't scratched out or anything suspicious, it was an OEM Honda frame that was blank.

I rebuilt the bike and it now works fine. I chopped up the original frame and kept the part of it that contains the vin sticker. I want to register the bike for the road and get riding again. Does anyone know the process behind this or has anyone dealt with anything similar?

Actions I've taken so far:

I called MTO and they described a process where I go to service ontario with my original ownership, receipt for the new frame, and an affidavit explaining the bike was rebuilt and has no VIN and needs one. I collected these documents, got my affidavit and went to service ontario. Service ontario lady told me I need to go to a Honda dealership and get them to write me a letter explaining that they've looked at the bike, confirmed its year, make and model, and that it has no VIN number. I called a dealership and they said they won't look at the bike, that it's a liability. They directed me to a custom bike shop, who I called and he said he'd provide me the letter-- but I don't know if it has to come from a specifically Honda dealer, or from any certified mechanic. Anyways that mechanic wanted to charge me 500$ for the letter.

I called MTO again and the guy I spoke to can't believe the trouble I'm going through. He said the process is very simple and many people have done it. He said he's sending an email to the manager that oversees vehicle registration and that he'll be able to help me.

Again, I know this is a weird situation. But has anyone ever dealt with getting a motorcycle a VIN?
 
Go to KBC tools buy a set of letter and number stamps and just do it. Takes like 5 minutes just make sure you are nice and neat.

Sent from my Chesterfield using my thumbs
 
I assume that you are already the owner of the bike with the existing VIN and you had it registered for the road originally with the original frame with all the original paperwork. If that's the case, you don't need a safety inspection to put it on the road again. No one needs to see it.

What do you want to do with the bike, both now, and eventually??

"Ride it" - Then get a license plate based on your existing VIN, and insurance based on your existing VIN, and ride it. You have the existing VIN that documents it as whatever make, model, and year that it is. You have the paperwork that documents your frame replacement (keep the receipt from buying it). You have the critical bits and pieces of the old frame. Rolling down the road, no one is going to be the wiser. Should there ever be an issue of some sort, you have the paperwork (and the chunks of steel and the old label).

If at some point in the future you find a way to stamp your original VIN back on the frame, have that done at your convenience.

You don't want to have a home-built VIN (which is what you would get if you got a new VIN for it). That's going to be nothing but a nightmare. Insurance won't know what to do with it (read: $$$).
 
Scuba Steve said:
Go to KBC tools buy a set of letter and number stamps and just do it. Takes like 5 minutes just make sure you are nice and neat.
Click to expand...
Unless the bike cannot be recorded with the current VIN (insurance write off) just do what Scuba Steve says. Punch in the numbers and keep on truckin'
 
Brian P said:
I assume that you are already the owner of the bike with the existing VIN and you had it registered for the road originally with the original frame with all the original paperwork. If that's the case, you don't need a safety inspection to put it on the road again. No one needs to see it.

What do you want to do with the bike, both now, and eventually??
Click to expand...
I am the original owner. I'm hoping to ride it and later down the road sell it. Although it's looking like that's a very slim possibility right now.

Brian P said:
You don't want to have a home-built VIN (which is what you would get if you got a new VIN for it).
Click to expand...

Ah makes sense, would probably kill my insurance.

Bike's never been branded or anything.
 
Brian P said:
I assume that you are already the owner of the bike with the existing VIN and you had it registered for the road originally with the original frame with all the original paperwork. If that's the case, you don't need a safety inspection to put it on the road again. No one needs to see it.

What do you want to do with the bike, both now, and eventually??
Click to expand...
I am the original owner. I'm hoping to ride it and down the road sell it

Brian P said:
You don't want to have a home-built VIN (which is what you would get if you got a new VIN for it).
Click to expand...
 
ducksinc said:
I am the original owner. I'm hoping to ride it and later down the road sell it. Although it's looking like that's a very slim possibility right now.



Ah makes sense, would probably kill my insurance.

Bike's never been branded or anything.
Click to expand...
So just stamp the new frame and you are done no need to say anything to the MTO.

Sent from my Chesterfield using my thumbs
 
Scuba Steve said:
So just stamp the new frame and you are done no need to say anything to the MTO.

Sent from my Chesterfield using my thumbs
Click to expand...
Yup. Keep the pics and maybe the headtube of the old frame for the next owner as they may get sketched out by a stamped vin.
 
There should be no need to involve the MTO if the original VIN bike is already registered to you and not branded. Unless things have changed, I had a friend crack his steering head in an accident. He just ordered a replacement frame from McBride Cycle and they stamped the old VIN into the new frame and kept the old one. Maybe it's because you bought the new frame from another dealer, but as long as you have the paperwork to prove you bought the new frame, as well as the unbranded ownership for the old one, any dealership should be able to do it for you (maybe not for free since you didn't buy anything from them). They use a similar stamping kit to the ones you can buy from Princess Auto. It might turn out looking pretty janky depending on who does it, because the letters and numbers are all individual punches. Personally, if it were mine, I would take the new frame to an engraver that can handle something that size.
 
JohnnyP636 powdercoated a frame for me. When he media blasted it, the vin came off. He milled a fresh flat surface, and then engraved on his cnc mill the new vin. It looked identical to factory.
It can be done.
 
ducksinc said:
Hey, so I'm in a bit of a predicament. Thought I'd rant and ask for some advice.

I had to replace the frame on my CBR. I ordered a new frame from a Honda parts dealer in the states that came without a VIN. The vin wasn't scratched out or anything suspicious, it was an OEM Honda frame that was blank.

I rebuilt the bike and it now works fine. I chopped up the original frame and kept the part of it that contains the vin sticker. I want to register the bike for the road and get riding again. Does anyone know the process behind this or has anyone dealt with anything similar?

Actions I've taken so far:

I called MTO and they described a process where I go to service ontario with my original ownership, receipt for the new frame, and an affidavit explaining the bike was rebuilt and has no VIN and needs one. I collected these documents, got my affidavit and went to service ontario. Service ontario lady told me I need to go to a Honda dealership and get them to write me a letter explaining that they've looked at the bike, confirmed its year, make and model, and that it has no VIN number. I called a dealership and they said they won't look at the bike, that it's a liability. They directed me to a custom bike shop, who I called and he said he'd provide me the letter-- but I don't know if it has to come from a specifically Honda dealer, or from any certified mechanic. Anyways that mechanic wanted to charge me 500$ for the letter.

I called MTO again and the guy I spoke to can't believe the trouble I'm going through. He said the process is very simple and many people have done it. He said he's sending an email to the manager that oversees vehicle registration and that he'll be able to help me.

Again, I know this is a weird situation. But has anyone ever dealt with getting a motorcycle a VIN?
Click to expand...
I ordered a new frame from a Honda parts dealer in the states

That might be your problem. I have a Honda hate for Honda Canada. If you had purchased through Honda Canada it might have cost twice as much and taken twice as long but they might talk to you. I haven't compared Honda US prices vs Canada recently but the differences used to be obscene. Honda was brutal if anyone tried to shop cross border. Dealers would lose their franchise and buyers wouldn't get a warranty.

A US Honda dealer supplied a recall clearance letter without hesitation. Canada got snotty.

The part that would annoy me is having to keep the old frame part and receipts in case I had a crash ten years from now and an insurance weasel tried avoiding a payout because of a sticker or stamp. "It doesn't have a S/N. How do we know this is the bike we insured? Claim denied."

"You stamped it yourself? You're obviously a criminal. Claim denied."

Would a future buyer question a bike without a S/N? There is nothing to tie the specific paperwork to the specific bike.

Is it a sticker or is it stamped into the metal? When I imported a bike, RIV sent me new stickers to go over the old. Stickers can peel off. Can the old sticker be peeled off and reapplied? I'm guessing it won't look right.

You are the original owner, have ID and a solid paper trail. You have a paper / metal trail for the frame swap. I assume you have never been charged with vehicle theft. But the government sends you into the paperwork maze.

Every level of government needs a new cabinet position, Minister of Not My Job. The person that gets that position handles all the BS from all the civil servants that say "It's not my job."
 
Replacement frames never have serial numbers. As other have suggested, stamp your existing VIN into the new part, cut the old piece off the damaged frame and toss the rest. The only thing you won't have is the Transport Canada maple leaf sticker and nobody cares about that, least of all the guv.
 
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