2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!) | Page 8 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)

Chaos

Well-known member
Could it really happen mid-season? Is there a precedent? (I'm a relative MotoGP noob)

Riders have moved from satellite teams to factory teams as injury subs.

(off the top of my head, Ducati promoted Hector Barbera in 2016 for a few races, from the Avintia team due to injury reasons)

Admittedly, I cannot think of a time where a factory team swapped riders with a satellite team midseason for performance reasons. However, assuming it is allowed, I can see Ducati doing it - seems like it's just in their nature.
 

abkdt41

Well-known member
When was the last time someone from a satellite team won the championship

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Chaos

Well-known member
When was the last time someone from a satellite team won the championship

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Interesting question. It depends on what you define as a satellite team.

Rossi won the 2001 championship on the Nastro Azzuro Honda. Honda's official team was the Respol team, but Honda effetively also owned that team as well (the entire team was Mick Doohan's team including Burgess)

Prior to that, I want to say 1992 - Wayne Rainey. He was on Team Roberts, but was the defacto factory team for Yamaha. (Yamaha did not have a factory team then) If you count that as factory, then it could be:

Eddie Lawson in 1990 who won with Kanemoto Honda, but again, it was a satellite team in name - it was a pseudo factory team also sponsored by Rothmans.
 
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bakaboy

Old, Slow and Grumpy
Site Supporter
I was a believer that Miller was seeing red as I watched the race. The camera angle at the time was straight on.

When I saw the helicopter angle I lessened my view and convinced myself that Miller did not let up since he saw Mir had run deep and he followed the traditional line. I saw it more as aggressive racing and not anger.

Bigwigs who decide penalties have far more data than I do. No penalty suggests that they saw it the same as a racing incident.

It's not the 1st time that a race bike has held the line and made contact with a racer who is trying to re-acquire the line because they went deep in the corner.
 

BigEvilDoer

Well-known member
In any case, they're all factory riders, so Ducati will take whomever they think will challenge the most, and both Zarco and Martin have shown something that Bagnaia and Miller now have to respond to, else you might see a rider promotion and swap next season (and maybe even this season if the standings are extreme).

I'm astonished by Martin's performance on Sunday. For a rookie, he deserves all the credit in the world.
Personally, I believe that Miller is a bit over-rated. Yes, he's an extremely accomplished rider - won't take anything away from him there.... But, his results, well, they speak for themselves.

Given a couple years, I can see Bagnaia and Martin being the factory riders, and hopefully doing very well.

Pedro Acosta - hopefully he's not a flash in the pan. If he keeps on going with similar performances, he's going to be a rider that all teams will be clamouring after.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
The spanish talent pipeline continues to crank them out.

Usually, if you have success with Ajo, you are destined for better things. Acosta seems to following that trend.

Gotta give KTM credit - they have got probably the most loaded rider pipeline. Martin was a KTM guy too. I wonder how hard they tried to keep him to ride with Tech3 (instead of Pramac) Martin is already better IMO than Lecuona.
 

BigEvilDoer

Well-known member
Gotta give KTM credit - they have got probably the most loaded rider pipeline. Martin was a KTM guy too. I wonder how hard they tried to keep him to ride with Tech3 (instead of Pramac) Martin is already better IMO than Lecuona.
Yeah, I hear you... as a KTM fan, it hurts to see Lecuona and Petrucci on the Tech3 machines. Sure, they were the best available at the time, and Lecuona may yet show promise. As awesome of a guy as Petrucci is (according to every team mate and crew he's ever had), unfortunately, his sun has passed it's apex, unless it's in the rain.

Was interesting to see all of the KTM's using the medium front this past weekend - was really the only option they had. All fo them destroyed the front soft by mid race distance in Qatar 1. At least Binder made a decent showing.

And now off to Europe, where KTM and other machines may shine a bit more.
 

Hardwrkr13

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I didn't rewatch it, but on the first incident thought Mir had a front in there and Miller not wanting to concede the position made the attempt pass look worse than it was and was more responsible for making the contact happen. On the second incident Miller was still pissy and saw Mir on the outside and continued to push wide knowing it would force Mir off track.
I like Ducati and Suzuki equally, but on my initial and only watch, feel it was Miller that caused both incidents.
Mir's first attempt was ambitious, and he wasn't so far in place that Miller definitely should have conceded the spot, but that second incident pushing Mir off track should have been penalized imo and it cost Mir a couple spots.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
So... we just started 2021 and 2022 silly season has begun

Speculation is that Fabio DiGiannantonio is moving up to MotoGP with Gresini.

Several thoughts:

1. Aprilia is going to have their own grid slots for next year, they are ending their works agreement with Gresini
2. Very pleasantly surprised to Gresini is going to stick around in spite of the split with Aprilia

Lots of questions

What equipment will Gresini run? Assuming Aprilia get new slots, that would increase the grid size by 2, assuming VR46 takes the Esponorama slots - Esponorama is almost 100% likely to leave MotoGP this year (which is why their riders only have 1 year deals)

Will Ducati still run 6 bikes? Will Gresini take Ducati? Will Suzuki or Aprilia supply bikes? Personally, I would love to see Yamaha or Honda increase their presence - in some years, there were as many as 7 Hondas on the grid (excluding the CRT/Open era) and Gresini was a strong Honda team early in the MotoGP era.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
What equipment will Gresini run? Assuming Aprilia get new slots, that would increase the grid size by 2, assuming VR46 takes the Esponorama slots - Esponorama is almost 100% likely to leave MotoGP this year (which is why their riders only have 1 year deals)
Too many Hondas with not enough reason for them to be there given the lack of results so far, but that will change with the European tracks ahead of us and may be worthwhile as Marc is still the only one to be able to handle it with any chance of results.

I honestly think it will be Gresinin-Suzuki, Mir is the leader of that team now, and Alex will likely have to decide what to do now that a team that was once so supportive him when Andreas was there is now 'all in' on Mir and for good reason. Perhaps having the same works equipment on a satellite team will allow him to regain his confidence and perform better? It's working for Zarco.

As for the Miller and Mir issue, all I'll say is that we know what a 'mad lad' Miller is, but JLO (a fan favorite amongst you guys) told him in 2017 after that horrible rash that he needs to calm down or he risks hurting not just himself, but other riders on the track. I laughed when I heard he basically told JLO to go 'f himself' at the riders meeting, but looking back at it was very reminiscent of his confrontation with Sic.

This was just another reminder that Jack, for all his amusing banter, still cannot keep it together when things get dicey. and cooler heads need to prevail to get results. Mir's contact with Miller was a tough but fair racing incident, had Miller maintained his composure he could have just stayed closed and over taken him again on the straight. Instead he seemed intent on wanting to vent his anger and the disappointing results thus far and targeted Mir while he was on the rumble strips, which easily could have lead to a horrible crash taking them both out given how dirty and windy the track was.

It's pathetic that race direction let that slide, I thought it was worth demotion or long lap penalty, but in the end it doesn't matter now that the points have been handed--maybe a pit start for Miller makes things sink it, but it's still hard to see such a talented guy with everything to lose on a works Ducati just make such dumb mistakes--their has to be a serious cultural/management issue going on inside that garage.

I dislike Moto2, but Jack is one of the guys that in retrospect he probably would have benefited from staying there before he got to GP as he never really matured as a rider since his Moto3 days. He would have had to race with Zarco, Luthi, Franco, Mir etc... and would have probably been shown what it takes to win from being consistent instead of just trying to brute-force your way up the field like you can in Moto3 with 1/10 the HP and speeds.

Mcphee lost his cool and probably ruined his season (career?) and lost it, too. That was actually scary to witness as I've never seen a bike hit another rider like that and could have seriously injured his neck with that much momentum--it's worth rememebring Marc's horrible accident and humerus break was a result from the bike hitting him as he slid not the highside fall.

It was a crazy weekend, and very entertaining but I wouldn't mind things chilling down a bit and we see some clean racing at Portugal in all classes. Also, Pedro's race was amazing; this kid is definitely going to be a GP star if he keeps this up, he can't enter GP until he's 18 so maybe a season in Moto2 next year will be where he goes. Going too soon like Iker is probably not the best option and chances are that Petrux will not likely be there in 2 years so it will be the perfect time to do what Mir did.
 

BigEvilDoer

Well-known member
I dislike Moto2, but Jack is one of the guys that in retrospect he probably would have benefited from staying there before he got to GP as he never really matured as a rider since his Moto3 days. He would have had to race with Zarco, Luthi, Franco, Mir etc... and would have probably been shown what it takes to win from being consistent instead of just trying to brute-force your way up the field like you can in Moto3 with 1/10 the HP and speed....
As much as I like Luthi and Schrotter, their careers are basically done for. Last year they faded badly, and no signs of improvement. A shame.
 

Priller

Well-known member
So... we just started 2021 and 2022 silly season has begun

Speculation is that Fabio DiGiannantonio is moving up to MotoGP with Gresini.

Several thoughts:

1. Aprilia is going to have their own grid slots for next year, they are ending their works agreement with Gresini
2. Very pleasantly surprised to Gresini is going to stick around in spite of the split with Aprilia

Lots of questions

What equipment will Gresini run? Assuming Aprilia get new slots, that would increase the grid size by 2, assuming VR46 takes the Esponorama slots - Esponorama is almost 100% likely to leave MotoGP this year (which is why their riders only have 1 year deals)

Will Ducati still run 6 bikes? Will Gresini take Ducati? Will Suzuki or Aprilia supply bikes? Personally, I would love to see Yamaha or Honda increase their presence - in some years, there were as many as 7 Hondas on the grid (excluding the CRT/Open era) and Gresini was a strong Honda team early in the MotoGP era.
I'd love to see Aprilia step up with a proper works team and a satellite team, along with actual test riders, but considering they ditched Smith for Savadori, I have my doubts the money is there. The Dovizioso flirtation is interesting, but I don't see Dovi choosing the Aprilia over other rides he would have been offered. In the end, Noale is a tiny little factory compared to the competition, and I doubt Piaggio will open the purse strings. Unless they put Vespa on the side of the bikes...

So barring that, it's hard to know where Gresini ends up. If Honda wants to take a step away from all Marc, all the time, they could certainly afford it. But who would want a Honda these days? Definitely a problematic bike, but good history with Gresini. With Fausto gone, I'm not sure who is at the centre of the team...
Too many Hondas with not enough reason for them to be there given the lack of results so far, but that will change with the European tracks ahead of us and may be worthwhile as Marc is still the only one to be able to handle it with any chance of results.

I honestly think it will be Gresinin-Suzuki, Mir is the leader of that team now, and Alex will likely have to decide what to do now that a team that was once so supportive him when Andreas was there is now 'all in' on Mir and for good reason. Perhaps having the same works equipment on a satellite team will allow him to regain his confidence and perform better? It's working for Zarco.
It's definitely possible if Suzuki wants to be more than the 'once every twenty years' factory. I'm not sure they have the budget, though. Maybe KTM, as they're fricking huge?

As for the Miller and Mir issue, all I'll say is that we know what a 'mad lad' Miller is, but JLO (a fan favorite amongst you guys) told him in 2017 after that horrible rash that he needs to calm down or he risks hurting not just himself, but other riders on the track. I laughed when I heard he basically told JLO to go 'f himself' at the riders meeting, but looking back at it was very reminiscent of his confrontation with Sic.

This was just another reminder that Jack, for all his amusing banter, still cannot keep it together when things get dicey. and cooler heads need to prevail to get results. Mir's contact with Miller was a tough but fair racing incident, had Miller maintained his composure he could have just stayed closed and over taken him again on the straight. Instead he seemed intent on wanting to vent his anger and the disappointing results thus far and targeted Mir while he was on the rumble strips, which easily could have lead to a horrible crash taking them both out given how dirty and windy the track was.

It's pathetic that race direction let that slide, I thought it was worth demotion or long lap penalty, but in the end it doesn't matter now that the points have been handed--maybe a pit start for Miller makes things sink it, but it's still hard to see such a talented guy with everything to lose on a works Ducati just make such dumb mistakes--their has to be a serious cultural/management issue going on inside that garage.
Hey, you, me and JLo all agree! One thing that may be adding fuel to the fire is Miller only having a one year guaranteed deal with Ducati. Moving on from Dovi is one thing, but there's so few established riders out there now, so I think this year was all about trying things out to see what sticks. It puts a lot of pressure on the riders to perform from day one, though, as a slow start may mean relegation to support rider role and then the option for next year being declined. There's no doubt that Ducati would prefer an Italian, all things being equal (they wanted it so badly with Rossi), so Bagnaia will always have an edge as long as the results are close. Miller may also have been Ducati's way of protecting Pecco a bit, taking the number one pressure off and just letting him ride. Still, getting the number one seat at a major factory isn't easy, and it's up to Miller to take advantage. So far, he hasn't...

It was a crazy weekend, and very entertaining but I wouldn't mind things chilling down a bit and we see some clean racing at Portugal in all classes.
The (extended) prologue is over, time for the real season to start. Here's hoping a few teams and riders can find a way to consistently get the most out of the Michelins and we can start to find the next group of aliens. Add a weakened Marc into the mix and it should be fun...
 

Chaos

Well-known member

Jayv

Well-known member
Site Supporter
KTM,Honda and Morbidelli will be much stronger in Portugal. As for Mir being the Suzuki leader-he hasn't gone head to head with MM yet, let's see how well he handles that challenge, Rins has had good success going one on one against #93 they will need that. Ducati won't make the same mistake with Miller as they did with Lorenzo.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
KTM,Honda and Morbidelli will be much stronger in Portugal. As for Mir being the Suzuki leader-he hasn't gone head to head with MM yet, let's see how well he handles that challenge, Rins has had good success going one on one against #93 they will need that. Ducati won't make the same mistake with Miller as they did with Lorenzo.

Morbidelli's lack of speed, at least for the 2nd race, was tough to see. It looks like Yamaha figured something out on their bikes, but Morbidelli is running an older spec bike so doesn't have the upgraded bike. Tough to see that happen.

Mir is clearly a strong rider, but as is Rins. They are a 1 and 1a team. Good problem for Suzuki to have.

Ducati... I am already willing to be $5 that Miller is out at the end of the year - he is on a one-year contract, and I think Ducati think he is not championship calibre. Zarco or Martin will likely take that seat next year. Any takers?
 

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