• Welcome to the new GTAM. Have a look around and please post any issues in the Support Forum. Be sure to check out your profile settings to confirm all your settings.

13+ cbr600rr fly by wire front brakes

boyoboy

Well-known member
Wondering about the fly by wire front brakes on the 13+ Honda 600rr. Not too sure about fly by wire brakes but the road tests all generally rate them as very good. Anyone have race experience with these? Did you swap out the front brakes for something else?

edit - are my fears of fly by wire brakes unfounded or..?
 
Last edited:

Blackfin

Well-known member
Wondering about the fly by wire front brakes on the 13+ Honda 600rr. Not too sure about fly by wire brakes but the road tests all generally rate them as very good. Anyone have race experience with these? Did you swap out the front brakes for something else?

edit - are my fears of fly by wire brakes unfounded or..?
What do you mean "FBW brakes"? Do you mean ABS?
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter
I think OP is referring to Honda's Combined ABS system. It's not an unreasonable question, there could be an aspect of the system that makes it suboptimal for track use. Not that I myself have any knowledge on that one way or the other... however, I believe the system works via a normal ABS module, there is no braking by wire
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
It is not "fly by wire". Hydraulic pressure applied by the master cylinder goes to the calipers. It passes through the ABS module that can nudge the controls if the rider does something out of bounds. Few roadracers keep ABS, tightly or wrongly.
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
It is not "fly by wire". Hydraulic pressure applied by the master cylinder goes to the calipers. It passes through the ABS module that can nudge the controls if the rider does something out of bounds. Few roadracers keep ABS, tightly or wrongly.
Below is an article quote for the 2013+ cbr600rr; with riders including Ron Haslam; sounds like fly by wire brakes. Don't know if I want a computer controlling the amount of hydraulic pressure going to the brakes-and they're saying this is exactly what is happening.
News to me and not sure what to make of it.


LINK to article https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/honda/2013-honda-cbr600rr-first-full-track-test-review

In fact, the brakes are astounding. Brake as hard as you dare in incredibly difficult conditions from high speed (around 120mph today) and the bike stops without you even realising that ABS is fitted. The system combines front and rear brakes together and stops the bike diving so much under braking. It's great on the track and on the road should be a revelation.

The new system uses brake-by-wire. That means when you squeeze the lever at anything above 6mph, it sends hydraulic fluid to a braking power unit. This then sends an electronic signal and applies the amount of brakes required depending on the lever pressure.

When you pull the lever, you’re actually getting the feeling of a conventional brake but it’s through rubber springs rather than the amount of hydraulic fluid you’re sending to the calipers, and the computer is doing all the work.

It sounds terrifying to a luddite who’s first bikes had a cable and a drum, but in reality you’d never know it’s fitted, it really is that good, and unlike conventional ABS systems, Honda’s CBR600RR system doesn’t give any pulsing at the lever when the ABS is kicking-in.
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter
That reads like somebody goofed on the media tech briefing. The hydraulic circuit has go to all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper, that is a critical safety feature of hydraulic brakes. I think brake by wire in passenger vehicles currently only exists in EVs or hybrids that manipulate braking for energy recovery.

I found part of the slide deck that actually says "Brake-By-Wire" but the diagram clearly illustrates that it is not: https://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/eCBS/detail/index.html
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
That reads like somebody goofed on the media tech briefing. The hydraulic circuit has go to all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper, that is a critical safety feature of hydraulic brakes. I think brake by wire in passenger vehicles currently only exists in EVs or hybrids that manipulate braking for energy recovery.

I found part of the slide deck that actually says "Brake-By-Wire" but the diagram clearly illustrates that it is not: https://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/eCBS/detail/index.html
thx for the link. Im not certain that diagram provides enough detail to state unequivocally that hydraulic pressure from the master has a direct route to the calipers. Im wondering if this power unit is providing hydraulic pressure to the calipers, via electronics, even when braking normal w/o any need for the abs to activate. Even honda's blurp suggests this..I think? Going to look at this some more on the internet and see what I can find.
.. Im not convinced either way.. yet
 

Rob

Well-known member
The power unit you're mentioning is the ABS control unit. There is no production motorcycle made with electronically controlled pistons from a module based on pressure inputs from the lever/master cylinder. It's C-braking or combined braking, which has been around for ages.
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter
My 98 blackbird had combined braking...wasn't a fan of that.
I personally think the way Honda used to put linked brakes on their bikes was goofy, but this is much more intelligent than that
 

PrivatePilot

NOT at Tim Hortons.
Site Supporter
I personally think the way Honda used to put linked brakes on their bikes was goofy, but this is much more intelligent than that
I think the reason linked brakes is a thing is because it saves the *** of inexperienced or bad-habit riders who only ever use the rear brake and never/rarely touch the front lever. Next time you're out with a mixed group of other riders, observe..and you may be surprised at how many people only use their rear brake.

When the front brake provides 80% of your braking power, this is a potential big problem in an emergency situation for those who are scared of the lever vs the pedal.

Linking fixes that.
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter
I think the reason linked brakes is a thing is because it saves the *** of inexperienced or bad-habit riders who only ever use the rear brake and never/rarely touch the front lever. Next time you're out with a mixed group of other riders, observe..and you may be surprised at how many people only use their rear brake.

When the front brake provides 80% of your braking power, this is a potential big problem in an emergency situation for those who are scared of the lever vs the pedal.

Linking fixes that.
OK ... but the implementation specifically where it doubles the amount of hydraulic lines and you have multi chambered calipers and it alters the normal braking behavior of the bike. Stuff like this is the whole reason why people are still apprehensive of motorcycle ABS today
 

PrivatePilot

NOT at Tim Hortons.
Site Supporter
Stuff like this is the whole reason why people are still apprehensive of motorcycle ABS today
Advanced or particularly knowledgable riders, sure.

Squids, Hortons Choice, and your average 1000-2000KM/season rider (IE, the decidedly casual riders), these are the sorts who benefit from this sort of technology. I have zero doubt that linked brakes and ABS has saved many a rider from wrecks.
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
OK ... but the implementation specifically where it doubles the amount of hydraulic lines and you have multi chambered calipers and it alters the normal braking behavior of the bike. Stuff like this is the whole reason why people are still apprehensive of motorcycle ABS today
When I posted my article link I had a feeling something wasn't right with the content. I am apprehensive of electronics and brakes together.
I am now convinced that the master still controls things (whew lol)
thx folks. Technology is moving so quick ..
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter

Top Bottom