Service Ontario - Bike Registration Question

nakkers

nakkers

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I’m looking into doing a trade, bike for bike and wanted to know if anyone has recently done this? I did it a few years ago with a classic car. Service Ontario still needed an appraisal to put a value on the vehicle.


The premise is likely the same for bikes. However, an appraisal isn’t required. They don’t have book values for bikes at Service Ontario.


The other party is happy to put the value at $1. Better to ask or forgiveness than permission?
 
nakkers said:
I’m looking into doing a trade, bike for bike and wanted to know if anyone has recently done this? I did it a few years ago with a classic car. Service Ontario still needed an appraisal to put a value on the vehicle.


The premise is likely the same for bikes. However, an appraisal isn’t required. They don’t have book values for bikes at Service Ontario.


The other party is happy to put the value at $1. Better to ask or forgiveness than permission?
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Technically not allowed as you are supposed to put full value. I would put 100 dollars and not mention any trade.

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This is the way. And if they tell you an appraisal is required, go to another location or even another representative in the same office. When I bought my first Hawk, the Lawrence/Kennedy location told me I needed an appraisal because it was so old. So I got one and went back and the person I gave it to said "Oh, we don't need that".
 
Trade between private parties is treated as 2 independent sales, you treat it as if you bought the bike.

value? I wouldn’t put $1 on the bill. For an older project bike, say $100. For a late model project, say $500. That won’t arouse suspicion.
 
Mad Mike said:
Trade between private parties is treated as 2 independent sales, you treat it as if you bought the bike.

value? I wouldn’t put $1 on the bill. For an older project bike, say $100. For a late model project, say $500. That won’t arouse suspicion.
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He's right. When I went to get ownership for a bike I was given the SO person said I could put $1 but that might people to dig in to it and saying $100 (for a cost of $13) ensures no eyebrows are raised.
 
Also remember, even on vehicles which do have a value (cars, yuck!), you pay the GREATER of either

1) the WHOLESALE value

OR

2) the actual sale price

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So in the case of this car, wholesale is $1440, and retail is $3400.

If you and the seller agree that you paid $1650, you'd pay tax on $1,650. The sale price is greater than the wholesale value.

Always pay for and read the UVIP on cars, even if they're 10 years old.


- - - - -

Slightly unrelated, while car shopping, a used car dealer showed me just pictures of a carfax that he printed out. The date on the carfax was from several months earlier. Sketchy AF.

I pulled my own carfax and saw between the date of the seller's picture, and the present time, the car had gone to auction for frame damage.

They had fixed it and were trying to pretend nothing was ever wrong with it "No accident! Clean carfax!"

Be careful out there and if you're going to count on a document to be a part of your decision making, pay for that document yourself. Paying for your own carfax and your own uvip before you put money down can pay for itself many times over.

Good luck folks.
 
There are some interesting weight-based rules for personal vehicles. You don't need a UVIP, nor are you automatically billed a minimum of Red Book value for taxes on most full-size 4WD pickups. Vehicles over 2200kg and under 5400kg are exempt from these requirements. 1/2 ton 2WD, Tacos, Rangers, Canyons, Ridgelines and other little pickups are not exempt.
 
Relax said:
And if you buy a car and pay less than wholesale for it, it may be worth it to get an appraisal for the paid value, if the cost of the appraisal ($50) is less than the amount you will save. This is especially relevant for project cars.
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On cars and bikes 20 years or older (antiques), you need a UVIP and either an appraisal or an insurance policy that shows the guaranteed replacement value to transfer ownership. You pay HST based on the greater of the purchase price, appraisal or insured replacement value.

I've never had MOT enforce this on an old bike, but they did when I bought my 69 Spitfire. I had to pay for an appraisal ($250). The appraiser asked me what I paid, I told him, and he used that as the appraisal value.

$250 hijack.
 
Mad Mike said:
On cars and bikes 20 years or older (antiques), you need a UVIP and either an appraisal or an insurance policy that shows the guaranteed replacement value to transfer ownership. You pay HST based on the greater of the purchase price, appraisal or insured replacement value.

I've never had MOT enforce this on an old bike, but they did when I bought my 69 Spitfire. I had to pay for an appraisal ($250). The appraiser asked me what I paid, I told him, and he used that as the appraisal value.

$250 hijack.
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Really? Since when? My Hawks were 20+ years old when I got them. As mentioned above, one person at MTO told me I needed an appraisal but when I came back with one to the same location, a different persona said I didn't need it.
 
Relax said:
Really? Since when? My Hawks were 20+ years old when I got them. As mentioned above, one person at MTO told me I needed an appraisal but when I came back with one to the same location, a different persona said I didn't need it.
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That's my experience too -- sometimes they know, sometimes they don't. I'm pretty sure a lot of their procedures are manually enforced.

I know for years a GTA KTM dealer would send customers to a SO office on Georgian Bay where they gladly registered 2stokes as road legal if you brought them a NEVIS package -- I was shocked back in 2000 when a workmate showed up to the office new KTM Erzbergrodeo with plates. And not long ago the Keswick office used to process transfers on lost registrations without having an affidavit signed by a Commissioner of Oaths.
 
timtune said:
He's right. When I went to get ownership for a bike I was given the SO person said I could put $1 but that might people to dig in to it and saying $100 (for a cost of $13) ensures no eyebrows are raised.
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Think I’ll do something like that. It’s not a large sum of money to pay in the grand scheme of things. Just don’t want to pay based on actual value and never really ran into issues registering a bike with a purchase price under a grand and saying it was a project.


Thank you everyone for your wise words and guidance.
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