Oil performance degrading after 1,500km?

[stangn99]

I did an oil change on my new to me '18 s1000r about 1,500 km ago. I live downtown and often faced with terrible traffic for quite some time before I can get to some open roads. The bike gets hot fairly quickly and blows a ton of hot air at me as soon as I hit some traffic (dash reads 104C, at which point the fan turns on and drops temps to 94-95C...rinse and repeat).

Anyway. I'm wondering if this constant and frequent heat cycle breaks down additives in the oil quicker.

I ask because I've noticed the quick shifter/blipper are not as smooth/buttery as when I first changed the oil. I sometimes feel some resistance when using Shift Assist. Sometimes even with clutch operation I can feel the shifts aren't as smooth as they were 1,000km ago.

Out of curiosity I drained a bit of a the oil into a clear bottle and found it to be really dark. Not sure if colour matters at all. For reference I couldn't see any light through the oil (Motul 7100).

I guess my question is: can oil performance degrade after just 1,500km of riding? I never had this issue with my previous bikes, but also didn't live downtown at the time. I've checked my chain slack (35mm) and clutch slack (1mm when cold).

 

[Wingboy]

Follow the recommendations in your manual, or get an oil analysis done and then learn (the hard part) how to read the results.

 

[bigpoppa]

I did an oil change on my new to me '18 s1000r about 1,500 km ago. I live downtown and often faced with terrible traffic for quite some time before I can get to some open roads. The bike gets hot fairly quickly and blows a ton of hot air at me as soon as I hit some traffic (dash reads 104C, at which point the fan turns on and drops temps to 94-95C...rinse and repeat).

Anyway. I'm wondering if this constant and frequent heat cycle breaks down additives in the oil quicker.

I ask because I've noticed the quick shifter/blipper are not as smooth/buttery as when I first changed the oil. I sometimes feel some resistance when using Shift Assist. Sometimes even with clutch operation I can feel the shifts aren't as smooth as they were 1,000km ago.

Out of curiosity I drained a bit of a the oil into a clear bottle and found it to be really dark. Not sure if colour matters at all. For reference I couldn't see any light through the oil (Motul 7100).

I guess my question is: can oil performance degrade after just 1,500km of riding? I never had this issue with my previous bikes, but also didn't live downtown at the time. I've checked my chain slack (35mm) and clutch slack (1mm when cold).

I found on my triumph, if the chain is even a little bit dirty or slightly out of spec, I start getting false nuetrals, I also lube the shifter linkages (with acf 50 no less) regularly which helps, all in all, a bit more maintenance to keep it buttery smooth all the time.

 

[bitzz]

The only way you're going to know what is really going on is with oil analysis.
100 C is NOT too hot, "dirty" oil doesn't really mean anything... necessarily. Yes oil can degrade in 1500km.
Have you tried switching oils?

 

[GreyGhost]

I did an oil change on my new to me '18 s1000r about 1,500 km ago. I live downtown and often faced with terrible traffic for quite some time before I can get to some open roads. The bike gets hot fairly quickly and blows a ton of hot air at me as soon as I hit some traffic (dash reads 104C, at which point the fan turns on and drops temps to 94-95C...rinse and repeat).

Anyway. I'm wondering if this constant and frequent heat cycle breaks down additives in the oil quicker.

I ask because I've noticed the quick shifter/blipper are not as smooth/buttery as when I first changed the oil. I sometimes feel some resistance when using Shift Assist. Sometimes even with clutch operation I can feel the shifts aren't as smooth as they were 1,000km ago.

Out of curiosity I drained a bit of a the oil into a clear bottle and found it to be really dark. Not sure if colour matters at all. For reference I couldn't see any light through the oil (Motul 7100).

I guess my question is: can oil performance degrade after just 1,500km of riding? I never had this issue with my previous bikes, but also didn't live downtown at the time. I've checked my chain slack (35mm) and clutch slack (1mm when cold).

104C isn't that hot. Now, I assume that's water temp and your bike doesn't tell you oil temp? Oil temp may be higher. That being said, I'd be surprised if oil temp in slow speed riding was higher than oil temp when flogging it at the track. I'd be shocked if your oil was substantially hurt but blackstone can answer that question easily. I haven't done that use cycle but I haven't had oil degrade that quickly. Maybe some of the track guys will comment on oil change intervals for the track as that should be worst case. @Brian P ?

EDIT:
Toromont used to facilitate oil analysis too. Not sure if they still do. The office is in Vaughan.

 

[Sunday Rider]

What if you change the oil now and see if that goes back to the smooth shifting you remember?
I know this is apple to oranges but when I used to commute, the stop and go traffic made the clutch act grabby and shifting wasn't smooth, but that got better once I was moving again and things cooled down.

 

[Relax]

I would go with a higher viscosity oil if your manual recommends. My Ducati lists multiple viscosities based on ambient temperature with a LOT of overlap:


I've always used 15w50 and never had it overheat on me. As soon as a shop who did my valves changed it for 10w40 Motul v300, it overheated on my first trip to work in traffic. Back to 15w50 now. I actually forgot 20w50 is an option if I'm not riding (this bike) down to freezing like I used to.

 

[POWERMAN]

Best is to do your own oil analysis using a reputable business.
They give you a summary/breakdown of the metal residue they discover within the used oil sample and also provide feedback on the oil life.

Oil Analysis | Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English! Since 1985.

www.blackstone-labs.com

SPEEDiagnostix - Express Oil Analysis

Spot engine problems early before they become really expensive! Used oil analysis with SPEEDiagnostix is the quickest way to know the health of your engine! Get a detailed report of your motor oil with easy color coded results, along with comments written in plain English by a Certified...

www.speediagnostix.com

WearCheck - The Leader in Oil Analysis

WearCheck - The Leader in Oil Analysis

wearcheck.ca

Good luck and let us know your findings!

 

[stangn99]

I found on my triumph, if the chain is even a little bit dirty or slightly out of spec, I start getting false nuetrals, I also lube the shifter linkages (with acf 50 no less) regularly which helps, all in all, a bit more maintenance to keep it buttery smooth all the time.

I've checked and doubled checked the correct chain slack and lubricate the chain every 500km (approximately every 3 tank fill-ups). I also lubricated all moving parts with marine grade grease. The bike was stored in a garage for over a year before I purchased it, so I made sure to clean and lubricate everything just in case.

The only way you're going to know what is really going on is with oil analysis.
100 C is NOT too hot, "dirty" oil doesn't really mean anything... necessarily. Yes oil can degrade in 1500km.
Have you tried switching oils?

I haven't tried switching oils. In the past (not with this specific bike) I've used Rotella T6, Royal Purple (worst one IMO), Mobile1 and Motul 300v and 7100. I found Motul 7100 performed the best on previous bikes in terms of shifting feel, so that's all I've been using for the past 15 years. Motul 300v did poorly in traffic conditions.

104C isn't that hot. Now, I assume that's water temp and your bike doesn't tell you oil temp? Oil temp may be higher. That being said, I'd be surprised if oil temp in slow speed riding was higher than oil temp when flogging it at the track. I'd be shocked if your oil was substantially hurt but blackstone can answer that question easily. I haven't done that use cycle but I haven't had oil degrade that quickly. Maybe some of the track guys will comment on oil change intervals for the track as that should be worst case. @Brian P ?

EDIT:
Toromont used to facilitate oil analysis too. Not sure if they still do. The office is in Vaughan.

I believe that's the coolant/water temp that is displayed on the dash. The bike also runs sort of lumpy when sitting in traffic for a while, but I'm reading that's common on these bikes and the only solution is to flash it with BrenTune (which lowers the temp at which the fan kicks on to ~94C). I'm not really interested in that "fix" though. Especially not for $1,000.

What if you change the oil now and see if that goes back to the smooth shifting you remember?
I know this is apple to oranges but when I used to commute, the stop and go traffic made the clutch act grabby and shifting wasn't smooth, but that got better once I was moving again and things cooled down.

I think this will be my plan. I may just order another 4L of Motul 7100 for a direct comparison.

Exactly what you mentioned. Things do get better once I hit open road, but it only takes a tiny bit of slow riding before it starts to feel a little rough (like, 2 heat/cool cycles before the symptoms reappear).

The clutch slack also increases on these bikes when at operating temperature. I find it rather annoying having to set the slack to basically nothing (1mm) and then having the slack increase when at operating temps.

I would go with a higher viscosity oil if your manual recommends. My Ducati lists multiple viscosities based on ambient temperature with a LOT of overlap:
View attachment 69019

I've always used 15w50 and never had it overheat on me. As soon as a shop who did my valves changed it for 10w40 Motul v300, it overheated on my first trip to work in traffic. Back to 15w50 now. I actually forgot 20w50 is an option if I'm not riding (this bike) down to freezing like I used to.

Unfortunately the manual only states 5w40

Best is to do your own oil analysis using a reputable business.
They give you a summary/breakdown of the metal residue they discover within the used oil sample and also provide feedback on the oil life.

Oil Analysis | Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English! Since 1985.

www.blackstone-labs.com

SPEEDiagnostix - Express Oil Analysis

Spot engine problems early before they become really expensive! Used oil analysis with SPEEDiagnostix is the quickest way to know the health of your engine! Get a detailed report of your motor oil with easy color coded results, along with comments written in plain English by a Certified...

www.speediagnostix.com

WearCheck - The Leader in Oil Analysis

WearCheck - The Leader in Oil Analysis

wearcheck.ca

Good luck and let us know your findings!

Thanks for the links!

 

[Brian P]

104C isn't that hot. Now, I assume that's water temp and your bike doesn't

Maybe some of the track guys will comment on oil change intervals for the track as that should be worst case. @Brian P ?

I use Motul 7100 in my race bike (yamaha r3) and I change it mid-season and end of season. This is about every 600 - 800 km of beating on it. It usually retains its red colour. Never did oil analysis. Never had gearshifting issues.

 

[bitzz]

I haven't tried switching oils.

What is "best" for one bike is not necessarily "best" for a different bike... and the only way to figure out what is "best" is oil analysis
As long as the oil is in spec, it is good enough... anything past "spec" is on you to figure out.
Have you used the SPECIFIC oil listed in the manual? Adventec? (it looks like Adventec is made by Shell)

 

[Relax]

I use Motul 7100 in my race bike (yamaha r3) and I change it mid-season and end of season. This is about every 600 - 800 km of beating on it. It usually retains its red colour. Never did oil analysis. Never had gearshifting issues.

I sometimes wonder which is worse - wringing out a properly maintained bike on a track vs idling for an hour at a time in traffic with only the fan for airflow and coolant circulating at basically the lowest possible speed.

 

[Sunday Rider]

I know you’ve thought of this but just in case, if you switch oil brand or change using the Motul 7100, keep a sample of the old oil in case you decide to test it.

 

[Brian P]

I sometimes wonder which is worse - wringing out a properly maintained bike on a track vs idling for an hour at a time in traffic with only the fan for airflow and coolant circulating at basically the lowest possible speed.

They're both tough tests. Oil pressure and flow are low at idle, too. Contact pressure between cam lobes and followers depends on the valve springs and that's always there (perhaps Ducati has an advantage here!).

 

[Jayv]

Conversation we had about a week ago regarding oil brands.

My buddy and I own identical bikes, he uses Motul and I use Rotella T6.

Similar commuting habits, for me i never really notice a drop in shifting smoothness using Rotella(his opinion is the opposite) but i did when using Motul.

Try a different oil next change.

 

[stangn99]

I know you’ve thought of this but just in case, if you switch oil brand or change using the Motul 7100, keep a sample of the old oil in case you decide to test it.

Definitely. I've order another 4L jug of Motul 7100 and will be doing the oil change as soon as it arrives.

Here's the sample I saved. 1,500km on this oil and light shining directly at it.

 

[GreyGhost]

Definitely. I've order another 4L jug of Motul 7100 and will be doing the oil change as soon as it arrives.

Here's the sample I saved. 1,500km on this oil and light shining directly at it.

View attachment 69035

FWIW, car has an oil temp guage. On a long highway run today, oil was at a steady 104. Coolant was at "90" on the gauge but that's almost useless as gauge says 90 from 80 to 95 actual temperature. Manufacturers don't want to deal with people complaining about the needle off centre.

It would be interesting to know oil temp on your bike. Does the fan push air through the oil cooler or just the rad? A switched fan on the oil cooler may help you in traffic.

 

[Evoex]

I did an oil change on my new to me '18 s1000r about 1,500 km ago. I live downtown and often faced with terrible traffic for quite some time before I can get to some open roads. The bike gets hot fairly quickly and blows a ton of hot air at me as soon as I hit some traffic (dash reads 104C, at which point the fan turns on and drops temps to 94-95C...rinse and repeat).

Anyway. I'm wondering if this constant and frequent heat cycle breaks down additives in the oil quicker.

I ask because I've noticed the quick shifter/blipper are not as smooth/buttery as when I first changed the oil. I sometimes feel some resistance when using Shift Assist. Sometimes even with clutch operation I can feel the shifts aren't as smooth as they were 1,000km ago.

Out of curiosity I drained a bit of a the oil into a clear bottle and found it to be really dark. Not sure if colour matters at all. For reference I couldn't see any light through the oil (Motul 7100).

I guess my question is: can oil performance degrade after just 1,500km of riding? I never had this issue with my previous bikes, but also didn't live downtown at the time. I've checked my chain slack (35mm) and clutch slack (1mm when cold).

BMW shifters are pretty good, but i don't recall how good/bad my friends '17 RR was when i rode it.

Almost certainly the the bike will be happier if you have a more aggressive throttle input before trying to upshift.

You could also consider a flash from BT moto, they usually make the QS much snappier.

(17-19) BMW S1000RR (K46) Stage 1+ Calibration Kit w/ Tuner | BT Moto

Maximize your 2017-2019 BMW S1000RR with our Stage 1+ ECU Calibration. Unlock the throttle, gain power, and experience peak performance when you want it and how you want it.

bt-moto.com

 

[stangn99]

FWIW, car has an oil temp guage. On a long highway run today, oil was at a steady 104. Coolant was at "90" on the gauge but that's almost useless as gauge says 90 from 80 to 95 actual temperature. Manufacturers don't want to deal with people complaining about the needle off centre.

It would be interesting to know oil temp on your bike. Does the fan push air through the oil cooler or just the rad? A switched fan on the oil cooler may help you in traffic.

I agree. In all honesty I don't really care about the temp reading on the dash, so long as it's nothing out of the ordinary. The fan consistently turns on at exactly 104, and reduces temps to 94-95. The system is working as intended.

I'm just curious why the oil would turn black after just 1,500km and why the shift feel changed for the worse so quickly. I've done oil changes every 3-4k and on previous bikes, and the oil would come somewhat red.

The fan pushes air through the rad only. I'm not sure there's enough real estate to fit an additional fan to the oil cooler, but might be something to look into.

 

[GreyGhost]

I agree. In all honesty I don't really care about the temp reading on the dash, so long as it's nothing out of the ordinary. The fan consistently turns on at exactly 104, and reduces temps to 94-95. The system is working as intended.

I'm just curious why the oil would turn black after just 1,500km and why the shift feel changed for the worse so quickly. I've done oil changes every 3-4k and on previous bikes, and the oil would come somewhat red.

The fan pushes air through the rad only. I'm not sure there's enough real estate to fit an additional fan to the oil cooler, but might be something to look into.

If the oil cooler has no fan and little airflow, the oil temp may be to the moon. That would explain black oil.

Do you have any aftermarket guards fit over the rad/cooler?