Hack
Well-known member
Amateur...
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Special KTM butter bolts + ****** torque wrench = beer o clock.
- Thread starter jc100
- Start date
I've bought from him before with no issues. He may still be shut down for covid. He closed spring 2020 and the main page of his site hasn't been updated to say he has reopened.
If you're going to be drilling fasteners, you're gonna want a drill harder than the fastener... you want cobalt drills, and the more cobalt the better. Look for drills that list the actual cobalt content... a CO5 is 5% cobalt, CO8 is 8%... then there is M42: molybdenum with 10% cobalt. OOHH AAHH
I don't trust Canadian Tire or Home Depot "cobalt"... how much cobalt? 0.5%? 1%?
"Titanium" drills have some gold coloured "STUFF" painted on them for lubrication, they are NOT hard and it is just a gimmick
If you're going to be drilling fasteners you're gonna want the STOUTEST and sharpest drill you can get. Drills flex and wander... that is BAD. You may want to start the hole with a "center drill"
I have a set of M42 Screw Machine Drills (about half as long as a "normal" drill) that I use for drilling out fasteners ONLY.
No, cobalt drills are not cheap, but they work.
As an aside: I have removed lots and lots and lots of broken screws and bolts, maybe more than all of you combined (at a 6 man shop I used to work at, everyone else thought I LIKED removing broken fasteners and would snap stuff off cuz', NO PROBLEM, bitzz will fix this for us... I got pretty good at it) and I NEVER once got a screw out using a left hand drill. NOT ONCE. I have left drills, metric and imperial, just never use them.
... but the BEST extractors I found are made by Ridgid
IF you're going to use extractors; use GOOD ones. There is little that is more frustrating than breaking off an extractor in a hole: Now you're FUBAR'ed and looking for a EDM guy.
Titanium fasteners aren't that strong, look for 12.9 metric or A425 imperial fasteners
I don't trust Canadian Tire or Home Depot "cobalt"... how much cobalt? 0.5%? 1%?
"Titanium" drills have some gold coloured "STUFF" painted on them for lubrication, they are NOT hard and it is just a gimmick
If you're going to be drilling fasteners you're gonna want the STOUTEST and sharpest drill you can get. Drills flex and wander... that is BAD. You may want to start the hole with a "center drill"
I have a set of M42 Screw Machine Drills (about half as long as a "normal" drill) that I use for drilling out fasteners ONLY.
No, cobalt drills are not cheap, but they work.
As an aside: I have removed lots and lots and lots of broken screws and bolts, maybe more than all of you combined (at a 6 man shop I used to work at, everyone else thought I LIKED removing broken fasteners and would snap stuff off cuz', NO PROBLEM, bitzz will fix this for us... I got pretty good at it) and I NEVER once got a screw out using a left hand drill. NOT ONCE. I have left drills, metric and imperial, just never use them.
... but the BEST extractors I found are made by Ridgid
IF you're going to use extractors; use GOOD ones. There is little that is more frustrating than breaking off an extractor in a hole: Now you're FUBAR'ed and looking for a EDM guy.
Titanium fasteners aren't that strong, look for 12.9 metric or A425 imperial fasteners
Priller
Well-known member
Do right hand drills not torque the stud further into the threads?
When I have a broken bolt I start with a very small drill to drill out the bolt (never use easy outs - more like easy break off inside threads). A small drill is easier to center. Then move up drill sizes until the drill is almost to the size of the thread minor diameter. By then you have released a lot of the stress and the remaining bit will turn out like a helicoil.
There's not much torque on a small drill bit (think about how hard it is to hold the drill). Left-hand probably works through a combination of relieving pressure as the core is removed, some torque in the correct direction and some vibration.
Ah the beauty of owning a KLR. Pick it up, brush yourself off (sometimes a few stitches) and ride on.
I drill a lot of stainless, the CTC cobalt drills are pretty good. The princess auto cobalt drills are at best twisty center punches.
Buy the best bits you can justify, and if you need to justify it your making your own problems . And when they get dull toss them out. Life is too short to watch drill bits smoke.
Buy the best bits you can justify, and if you need to justify it your making your own problems . And when they get dull toss them out. Life is too short to watch drill bits smoke.
Or throw them in a container until you have time to learn how to sharpen bits. It's not that hard to make them cut better than new. Split points are harder unless you have a very sharp corner on a grinding wheel. I never bother putting split points back in, just drill the appropriate pilot hole.
Will these do the job?
Might as well add to the tool chest.
Might as well add to the tool chest.
I haven't used that set but as with everything CT, you should be able to get it half price if you can afford to wait. There are a bunch of one star reviews but they mostly seem to be written by morons (eg, they got dull when I used them).
They are on sale. They will do for now. One of my biggest peeves is not having the tools/equipment on hand to do a certain job. Catch 22…when that job comes along it’s only then you find you don't have the tools/equipment.
Dirty Frank
Well-known member
i find the QC of crappy tires drill bits to be very spotty at best. LH bits here
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DoubleDonut
Active member
Using a torque wrench on such low torque is just asking for trouble. Unless you are putting together a race engine anything lower than 25 ft lbs is probably better to just hand tight it. The risk of overtighten with a torque wrench on such low torque is far greater than the screw coming loose.
If you use a torque wrench capable of 100 lb-ft, you are entirely correct. For low torque you need smaller torque wrenches (and ideally not click wrenches as they have trouble giving a positive click at low torque). I like dial wrenches for low torque but electronic are quickly becoming what is probably the best option (upfront cost is brutal but you kept optical and audible confirmation and some can do torque + angle as that is becoming much more common).
DoubleDonut
Active member
And you are absolutely correct, but I think you are missing my point.
The point is, when it comes to wrench on a car/bike, I dont think I ever encountered a situation where it is critical to have the "correct" torque for such low torque application. The torque spec in these cases are more "max torque not to exceed" than "min torque to keep it tight". Like I said, I have been hand tightening everything under 25 lb-ft and never have an issue.
As carbon becomes more prevalent, low torque wrenches become more critical. You go from "that's almost enough" to "fack, that sounded expensive" very easily. I am normally with you and tighten by feel but bicycles are getting very touchy about that and I am sure other vehicles will follow as more parts are composite.
25 ft/lbs is right around the max for a M8 x 1.25 in aluminum. That's quite a few fasteners on a Japanese motorcycle.
Go over that and you'll either neck the bolt or pull the thread out of the aluminum. OOPS
I find you need a smaller torque wrench, not to set maximum torque, but when you're installing something with multiple fixing bolts that need to be at the same torque. When you're torquing a head what you're trying to get all the fasteners to the same torque so the head seats evenly, not develop maximum clamping forces (if they were trying to maximize clamping forces they wouldn't use bolts. They would use studs).
Accuracy is less important than repeatability
A torque wrench is MOST accurate in the middle 50% of it's range.
Go over that and you'll either neck the bolt or pull the thread out of the aluminum. OOPS
I find you need a smaller torque wrench, not to set maximum torque, but when you're installing something with multiple fixing bolts that need to be at the same torque. When you're torquing a head what you're trying to get all the fasteners to the same torque so the head seats evenly, not develop maximum clamping forces (if they were trying to maximize clamping forces they wouldn't use bolts. They would use studs).
Accuracy is less important than repeatability
A torque wrench is MOST accurate in the middle 50% of it's range.
I have the two sizes of mastercraft maximum torque wrenches. I used the small one for this job. I spoke to the mechanic that picked my bike up and he looked at the wrench and said is should be ok but for those bolts on the filter cover hand tight would have been fine.
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