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Coronavirus

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pfbmgd said:
If there was a standard for masks like there is for any PPE . Then yes I would wear one . But the policy just says cover your mouth and nose with ANYTHING . If the masks do not to protect others or you . It's a program for fools .
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The program is about protecting yourself, and just getting everyone doing it on board, if you are aware that better PPE recommendations would work more effectively then why not step up and wear a N95, instead you go the other way and do nothing, some protection is better then no protection, who is the fool?
 
BBC Reality Check on whether the USA is the "worst-hit country" (which it is, if you simply go by the number of officially recorded cases or deaths), or is one of the best because it has "one of the lowest death rates from the virus in the world" as Mr Trump alleges. Does the US have the worst coronavirus death rate?

If you do a lot of testing and find a lot of mild cases then yes, that drives the case fatality rate lower. But when you are still logging ~ 1000 deaths per day, around 50% of peak, 5 months after the first one ... That's not so good. Detecting all of those mild cases doesn't do much good when you can't contact-trace and isolate them and all their contacts.

Italy got down below 50% of their peak death rate about 2 months into the pandemic and they're now into their "second wave" with a death rate around 1/6 of what it was at peak.

Spain got down below 50% of peak death rate about 6 weeks in, and the current death rate is a very small fraction of that, even with their "second wave" happening now.

Canada got down below 50% of peak death rate about 10 weeks in, and the numbers are now very small.

The USA is failing at this - that's all there is to it.
 
Fwiw I'm that guy at Tim's that makes them redo my Tea with new gloves if they took cash from the person ahead of me and didn't clean gloves

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
On that topic of "is the USA the worst-hit country" ... By the measure of officially recorded deaths per million residents (which removes all the uncertainties and inconsistencies of testing), and based on Coronavirus Update (Live): 23,522,991 Cases and 811,048 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer ... Not yet.

Having said that ... Sort that table by deaths per million residents. The USA is 10th, currently at 545 deaths per million residents, but this has been going up by 3 to 4 per day. (1000 deaths per day in the USA = 3 per million residents each and every day).

Next question "what are the trends" ...

Chile is 9th, 567 deaths per million, this is also going up at roughly the same rate, so the USA may not catch them.

Sweden is 8th, 575 deaths per million, but is almost done with it. USA is on track to overtake this in 7 to 10 days.

Italy is 7th, 586 deaths per million, and is also almost done with it. USA is on track to overtake in 10 to 14 days.

UK is 6th, 610 deaths per million, and is recording few deaths. USA at current rates overtakes in 16 to 22 days.

Spain is 5th, 617 deaths per million. What happens here depends on how well they control their second wave. If they manage that, USA at current rates overtakes in 18 to 24 days.

Peru is in bad shape and getting worse.

Belgium's numbers are screwed up, it's known that they overrepresented the number of covid-19 deaths in long-term-care facilities, and it seems that now there's no way to fix it.

And that's it for big countries ahead of the USA on the list.

I think this is going to eventually end up: San Marino (which is a city-state in the middle of a hard-hit region of Italy), Belgium (known to have screwed up numbers), Peru, Chile, USA (which will have overtaken all of the european countries that were hard-hit early on with the exceptions listed above).

And that's sad.
 
Deaths per million residents doesn't remove uncertainties until it's over and done.

How many people were infected? How many weren't tested? How many were?
If everyone's been infected or the virus dies out, then yes, that's a good number to use to compare different types of treatments, and protection.
If the number infected is equal to the number who have died, then your countermeasures are ineffective. But you still need to know how far the virus has spread. Delta deaths per million over time, could give you an idea of how well you're doing, but it mixes areas that have been overwhelmed in with areas that have been underwhelmed, which may cause you to believe you're doing better or worse than you are. If there are pockets then we need to look at them, and why they are occurring. Things like putting covid patients into seniors' residences, could skew the numbers.
Canada's numbers looked weird to me. Something extra might be going on with either our number of positive tests or number of deaths.
I'll have to compare them to more countries, and see if there's a representative standard.
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sburns said:
The program is about protecting yourself, and just getting everyone doing it on board, if you are aware that better PPE recommendations would work more effectively then why not step up and wear a N95, instead you go the other way and do nothing, some protection is better then no protection, who is the fool?
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This is why it futile to discuss this with the uninformed sheep . The mask is for halting the spread . It does minimum to protect you . To protect yourself . You require a N95 mask , proper eye protection , gloves and a full protective suit . Then you need training on how to take the suit off . But wear your mask and feel good you are a great citezen .
 
Brian P said:
No. The numbers are so high in the USA because THEY ARE FAILING AT CONTROLLING THE SPREAD OF THIS DISEASE.

As of right now, Canada has done just over 5 million tests. The positivity rate is given as 2.3%. Epidemiological summary of COVID-19 cases in Canada - Canada.ca

US test positivity by state: Track Testing Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

As of right now - States or regions in which test positivity is below Canada's average: Alaska, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia. All other states are reporting higher test positivity - in many cases, much higher.

Some of those states - Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island - are states that were hit hard and are on the mend.

Most of the others are low population and/or low population density states that have not been hit hard.
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What does the test really tell you ? 98.5 % of those that test posotive have little or no symptoms . So you require a test to tell you maybe sick . Stop watChung TV with their fear agenda . The big mahority of deaths are people over 84 years of age . They were killed by policies that forced sick people into old age homes . It is a tragedy they passed early . But that is were we failed to protect them . Once the US election is over . All this will slowly disappear . The sooner tha better . Start concentrating on what our goverment is doing not what is happening in another country .
 
"policies that forced sick people into old age homes" um, no. If you are healthy enough you might move to an old age home aka retirement residence. If you have health and mobility issues you will be needing a Nursing or Long term care home, that is a completely different place and situation. You will know all about this when you or a close relative living in a retirement home situation experiences declining health.
 
Trials said:
"policies that forced sick people into old age homes" um, no. If you are healthy enough you might move to an old age home aka retirement residence. If you have health and mobility issues you will be needing a Nursing or Long term care home, that is a completely different place and situation. You will know all about this when you or a close relative living in a retirement home situation experiences declining health.
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I think he was referring to situations near the beginning where some people with covid were sent to old age homes. That was a terrible idea and I cant remember at this point if that happened in Canada.

I dont know why we are still trying to have rational arguments with irrational people. I'm sure the dead 19 yo from Montreal agrees that this is a scam to affect the US presidential election and it only affects old people so we should pretend it doesnt exist.
 
pfbmgd said:
Once the US election is over . All this will slowly disappear .
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The virus doesn't care about elections. Public health policies, and the willingness and diligence of the public in following them, make a difference. The only way the US election makes a difference is if it results in public policy changes ... and if the public chooses to follow them.

We have public policies in effect. I'm following them.
 
GreyGhost said:
I think he was referring to situations near the beginning where some people with covid were sent to old age homes. That was a terrible idea and I cant remember at this point if that happened in Canada.

I dont know why we are still trying to have rational arguments with irrational people. I'm sure the dead 19 yo from Montreal agrees that this is a scam to affect the US presidential election and it only affects old people so we should pretend it doesnt exist.
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A rational argument is that one 19 year old died somewhere, therefore . . .
Unspecified anecdotal data, is the best kind of data - to a politician.

I think we need to start looking at facts, rather than our feelings. I'm sure that lots of 19 year olds have died this year. Possibly not as many as other years, as one study said, and attributed to fear of COVID.

Edit: My fear is that our politicians will paint themselves into a corner for political reasons, and then do something irrational, to attempt to maintain control, and people will die unnecessarily.
 
The age distribution of coronavirus infections and deaths is readily available for developed countries - for example, our own (scroll down to "Demographics"): Epidemiological summary of COVID-19 cases in Canada - Canada.ca

No one argues that the risk is greater for older folks and lesser for younger folks. The risk for younger folks is not zero (see above), and a significant concern is that young people transmit the virus to their parents, grandparents, teachers, etc.
 
This particular virus already mutated a few times...once at the very beginning to infect humans, then again to give a new strain, also infectious to humans. It’s a type of virus particularly prone to mutations. Some will not lead to anything, but the longer the virus sticks around, the more chance you have of it becoming something nastier.

Doing what we can to make sure it doesn’t stick around any longer than is necessary is a sensible thing to do. That includes not allowing the virus to jump from host to host by following reasonable public health advice.
 
jc100 said:
but the longer the virus sticks around, the more chance you have of it becoming something nastier.
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During SARS i remember reading its usually the opposite, a virus that kills its infected host too quickly ends up extinct by its own hand because it doesnt get as much of a chance to spread to an uninfected host, so over time most viruses mutate to have less virulence and become less deadly because the deadly strains die off while the others live on by giving their hosts just mild symptoms.
 
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