Riceburner
Well-known member
Vicious circle. Poverty/welfare and you can't be bothered to dig out, so stuff around you goes down the tubes too...and it just loops back around again.
Touring in China
- Thread starter nobbie48
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TorontoBoy
Well-known member
That is a very good way to drive yourself crazy when you are in China, with the cultural weight of 1.4B people on your shoulders.
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They also do a food commentary on one of the vids and it too is a warning shot. Again one has to understand the survival mentality. It's easy to talk noble attitudes when you've got food in your tummy, a roof over your head and cash in the bank.
Some knapsack trekker shows extol the street food vendors but in the third world every penny counts and some things get pretty rank before they get thrown out.
TorontoBoy
Well-known member
I happened upon another of their videos on YouTube and started watching them. I've watched quite a few and now believe these guys really do understand China, though more from Southern China rather than the North.
While they (SerpentZa) say that personal safety is good in China, I disagree. It really depends on where you go. They are also talking from a white foreigner's perspective, where any Chinese attacker who was caught would probably be executed. If you are an Asian Canadian your experience will be completely different and much less safe, as you will blend and be treated like a local. I do agree that traffic is really, really dangerous in China, and if you want proof, we have it here in Scarborough, though the many traffic scenes in the background of his videos will show you just how dangerous. I'm not sure I would ride a bike in any 2nd tier Chinese city, though they seem to be banning bikes, so I might not have a chance. The most dangerous thing in China is the food, or lack of safe raw materials such as vegetables and meat, which I do agree with. There are also fake medicines packaged to look just like the original. You really have no control over vegetables, meat, air, water.
Both these guys are white, both married Chinese, and they have interesting ride footage. One is from Shenzhen and one is from Huizhou, close to Shenzhen. They go through some really narrow footpaths, one which led them to a super narrow dead end, which housed a gang of dogs. To see them backpedal their bikes, keep upright, keep looking at the dogs (never turn your back on the dog), was interesting. They eventually were able to turn around, ride another way beside the village, only to be chased by one of the same dogs.
While they (SerpentZa) say that personal safety is good in China, I disagree. It really depends on where you go. They are also talking from a white foreigner's perspective, where any Chinese attacker who was caught would probably be executed. If you are an Asian Canadian your experience will be completely different and much less safe, as you will blend and be treated like a local. I do agree that traffic is really, really dangerous in China, and if you want proof, we have it here in Scarborough, though the many traffic scenes in the background of his videos will show you just how dangerous. I'm not sure I would ride a bike in any 2nd tier Chinese city, though they seem to be banning bikes, so I might not have a chance. The most dangerous thing in China is the food, or lack of safe raw materials such as vegetables and meat, which I do agree with. There are also fake medicines packaged to look just like the original. You really have no control over vegetables, meat, air, water.
Both these guys are white, both married Chinese, and they have interesting ride footage. One is from Shenzhen and one is from Huizhou, close to Shenzhen. They go through some really narrow footpaths, one which led them to a super narrow dead end, which housed a gang of dogs. To see them backpedal their bikes, keep upright, keep looking at the dogs (never turn your back on the dog), was interesting. They eventually were able to turn around, ride another way beside the village, only to be chased by one of the same dogs.
TorontoBoy, you could, to a lesser extent, be talking about the USA. Checkerboard cities where you could be safe anytime in one spot and then across the street get shot in a heartbeat.
The Mall in Washington DC and the strip in Vegas are quite safe but a block or two away not so much.
The Mall in Washington DC and the strip in Vegas are quite safe but a block or two away not so much.
PLau
Well-known member
I was in China (Macau) for a day last month as a side-trip from being in Hong Kong for a week -> Japan for 2 weeks.
I can honestly say I don't like the culture there at all. We had a relative drive us when were were there (which happened to be a retired police officer). Comparing China drivers to Scarborough is like comparing Sudbury drivers to downtown Toronto - not even close. The roads are stupid confusing compared to here especially when you start hitting double roundabouts with no clear signage and everyone drives aggressive af compared to here.
In regards to bike life... 95% are scooters, and babying a bike isn't even possible there. People will park between bikes while scraping both of them, hop off, and walk away. This was a regular occurrence - Practically every bike had rash on their bikes. Not sure how the claim of the "possibility of banning bikes" would even work considering it was pretty much half the vehicles on the road - that being said, never heard of it...
In crowded areas, it was more of a shove or be shoved situation where you'd get old ladies and kids trying to push through you. You can see a lot of that in heavily Chinese populated areas here...
As for mainland China... Those in Macau, China generally avoid the area and said "they would never go to mainland China to eat anything".
Leaving for Japan gave us a huge breath of fresh air (literally).
Only other time I went to China was when I was a kid to Beijing for the Great Wall which from what I remember was okay...
That being said, I would rate my trip experience there as 2.5/10 - would not return (and was lucky I only planned one day there).
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Riceburner
Well-known member
Just like anywhere else in the world. It depends on where you visited, when and with whom.
As for vehicles in China. Mostly they are tools to be used. Just like a work truck here isn't babied, neither are they there. Here bikes are luxury items, not basic transport.
As for vehicles in China. Mostly they are tools to be used. Just like a work truck here isn't babied, neither are they there. Here bikes are luxury items, not basic transport.
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TorontoBoy
Well-known member
I have spent most of my time in China in Beijing and the Northern area. There are clean rural areas in China. Third tier cities are less crowded, but everywhere traffic is chaotic. Drivers, cyclists, riders and peds are pretty chaotic.
Macao has about 650k people, roughly the same as Scarborough. I've not been to Macao, but it sounds like traffic is really chaotic. Beijing is a bit special because they enforce traffic laws more strictly than the 2nd tier cities. I see similar driving patterns between Scarborough and when I last visited China, in a 2nd tier city, hence my remarks. Novice drivers, the largest vehicle you can afford, tenuous knowledge of traffic laws, no importance on following the laws you know exist.
I'd like to add that HK is completely different. You need to be a really good driver there, just to survive.
Motorcycles and e-bikes are being banned in 1st tier and 2nd tier cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou. I don't know the exact reasons, but the ban is happening. How the bike ban works is the police stop you, they confiscate your bike, then you are bikeless.
You should not judge China only by a single day in one city. China has 1.4B people, largest in world population and 4th largest in land mass. That is a huge chunk of humanity, both good and bad. There will be huge variation between areas of the country.
Macao, like HK is on the the southern tip of China's Guangdong province. To the south is the Pacific, to the north is China. You don't need to go to Mainland China to eat products from China because both Macao and HK are not self sustaining areas. They import over 80% of their veg and 100% of their water from China. If China wanted to bring Macao and Hk to its knees in 3 days, all without firing a single shot, they need only turn off the water and wait.
Macao has about 650k people, roughly the same as Scarborough. I've not been to Macao, but it sounds like traffic is really chaotic. Beijing is a bit special because they enforce traffic laws more strictly than the 2nd tier cities. I see similar driving patterns between Scarborough and when I last visited China, in a 2nd tier city, hence my remarks. Novice drivers, the largest vehicle you can afford, tenuous knowledge of traffic laws, no importance on following the laws you know exist.
I'd like to add that HK is completely different. You need to be a really good driver there, just to survive.
Motorcycles and e-bikes are being banned in 1st tier and 2nd tier cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou. I don't know the exact reasons, but the ban is happening. How the bike ban works is the police stop you, they confiscate your bike, then you are bikeless.
You should not judge China only by a single day in one city. China has 1.4B people, largest in world population and 4th largest in land mass. That is a huge chunk of humanity, both good and bad. There will be huge variation between areas of the country.
Macao, like HK is on the the southern tip of China's Guangdong province. To the south is the Pacific, to the north is China. You don't need to go to Mainland China to eat products from China because both Macao and HK are not self sustaining areas. They import over 80% of their veg and 100% of their water from China. If China wanted to bring Macao and Hk to its knees in 3 days, all without firing a single shot, they need only turn off the water and wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_L71lFItk
Thought this vid was rather interesting. 7 and 10 years spent living there respectively. Both married to Chinese women, both feeling like they'll forever be second class "not actual" citizens.. I think given their time invested in trying to integrate, they have grounds for their complaining.
To the people of foreign decent here who seem a little miffed at these guys; would you be happy in Canada if you could never truly feel at home? Or even be allowed to work? Didn't think so.
Thought this vid was rather interesting. 7 and 10 years spent living there respectively. Both married to Chinese women, both feeling like they'll forever be second class "not actual" citizens.. I think given their time invested in trying to integrate, they have grounds for their complaining.
To the people of foreign decent here who seem a little miffed at these guys; would you be happy in Canada if you could never truly feel at home? Or even be allowed to work? Didn't think so.
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Rough life. Can't work so I have to go riding all day with my buddy. Wife is a traditionalist and insists on doing all of the housework.
Just kidding. Being a kept man is best kept as a fantasy.
While the barring of citizenship is illegal here the social aspect is prevalent in many sectors. It's going back a long time but my brother had to see a German chick on the quiet because her parents insisted she only date Germans. Remnants of the Third Reich?
Try to get ahead in a small ethnic business if you don't belong to the clan.
There is a conflict between maintaining your national pride and thinking that marrying an outsider diminishes the gene pool.
TorontoBoy
Well-known member
Very interesting video, and released Nov 2016, so last month. I understand the frustration about wanting to integrate, but do they really want to? You can petition the Chinese government for citizenship. it will be reviewed and possibly granted to select individuals. Most of the people I read about that have become naturalized citizens have been long-time farmers and communist party members. Even if you did successfully petition, you will need to renounce your original citizenship, and why would you do that? What does Chinese citizenship provide over a Canadian one?
I did not know about the spouse not being able to legally work. That is harsh and puts pressure on the couple to leave China, or file for divorce so the spouse can work. Maybe this is the reason behind the rule. I really do not think that China wants long-term foreigners in China, and this is a way of guaranteeing this.
I don't think that China wants long-term foreigners. They have as many rules to make living in China as difficult as possible. China is a mono culture and they want to stay that way. As for foreigners buying property and getting it confiscated by the government, this is also true for native Chinese. China is not the only country that makes it difficult for foreigners. I've lived in Japan with similar issues.
The vid references a white guy who has remarkable Chinese named "Da Shan", Big Mountain, 大山. His real name is Mark Rosewell. I went to school with him in China. He is from Toronto, has a BA from UofT in Chinese language. His propensity to pick up Chinese was truly remarkable. Then again he had a burning desire, even hotter than my own, to learn as much Chinese and culture as possible. His parents live, or used to, in North York, Don Mills/Finch! Mark is the most well known foreign person in China, and note that Chinese people love that he is Canadian. While I was fastidiously studing my given Chinese language textbooks, he regularly skipped his advanced Chinese classes to travel around Beijing, learn the local Beijing dialect, and Chinese comedy (xiangsheng).
Riceburner
Well-known member
Thought I linked that vid earlier. Oh well. You have to remember for China being Chinese is not just nationality, it's racial. There is a very strong want to keep "pure" if you will.
Big difference between going to such a controlled country and expecting western freedoms or coming to the west. That's why many "escaped" from China to pursue a freer life in the west.
Ya did.. sorry I missed that
All of this is just thought experiment for me, as I had no idea this existed... I mean I've had a few asian friends over the years let slip their dislike for other ethnic backgrounds, but this just seemed more pervasive.
So, is this concept of keeping China pure upsetting to anyone other than these guys? If not, what makes protecting their culture any different than those who supported Brexit, for example.
yodude
Banned
no kidding lol
Riceburner
Well-known member
Just like any other race or even group. They want to protect their own culture. Doesn't have to be racial, look at Quebec. That said, there are more radical elements in every group. Call it racism, nationalism, patriotism, whatever, it's all protectionism of one form or another.
PLau
Well-known member
True enough. Though given the choice, there would be many other places I'd rather go to than to return to China.
Rather spend the extra day in Japan or Nort.... South Korea..
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