Riceburner
Well-known member
A braking pro saves 5 meters of stopping distance. A non pro saves 17 meters. It had me at the 5 meters saved. I might not choose a bike only if it had ABS, but it wouldn't hold me back from buying one with it.
Abs
- Thread starter Baggsy
- Start date
I'm not so sure about trying to steer hard with the brakes on near lock in an emergency.and just how many low sides and controlled crashes have you under gone ???••••• yup ...just get off the pavement. Nothing like dirt to teach brake control under adverse circumstances. On pavement ...you cannot really learn threshold braking with an ABS system as it reads tire rotation and approach to lock up far better than you can and reacts to the specific pavement conditions. Some bikes can turn off ABS ...particularly useful for adventure bikes actually going off pavement. Letting off on an ABS system on pavement is the stupidest comment ever.....the brakes scrub off immense amounts of speed quickly and you can still steer. Accidents are sudden and an ABS system on pavement lets you grab a full handful of brakes front and rear and still maintain steering.....it's the steering you want to concentrate on and let the ABS do its think. As for jumping on the hood....if you watch crashes the bike launches you up anyway.....concentration needs to be entirely on avoidance and maximum braking at the same time .....bailing is seriously stupid even to think about. Your bike has mass and crush zones ....shocks, tires, fairing all of which offer protection.
-D-
Banned
and just how many low sides and controlled crashes have you under gone ???
•••••
yup ...just get off the pavement. Nothing like dirt to teach brake control under adverse circumstances.
On pavement ...you cannot really learn threshold braking with an ABS system as it reads tire rotation and approach to lock up far better than you can and reacts to the specific pavement conditions. Some bikes can turn off ABS ...particularly useful for adventure bikes actually going off pavement.
Letting off on an ABS system on pavement is the stupidest comment ever.....the brakes scrub off immense amounts of speed quickly and you can still steer.
Accidents are sudden and an ABS system on pavement lets you grab a full handful of brakes front and rear and still maintain steering.....it's the steering you want to concentrate on and let the ABS do its think.
As for jumping on the hood....if you watch crashes the bike launches you up anyway.....concentration needs to be entirely on avoidance and maximum braking at the same time .....bailing is seriously stupid even to think about.
Your bike has mass and crush zones ....shocks, tires, fairing all of which offer protection.
Since you asked...
I have managed to avoid that with the exception of when I first started riding and had a 100 kmh spill due to gravel, dirt, off road...I saw the hump and knew I was going air born except I needed to ensure the bike did not land on me. Slammed on brakes as hard as I could before launch...prepared for flight, bike in the air, I pushed off pegs to an angle away from bike, flipped over, slid on back for a while, kept arms out enough to act as balance to keep me from flipping and rolling which would lead to more damage. Came to a long slide, bike flipped a few times... bike was destroyed, cops and medics could not believe it, cop said buddy wait until you see that bike and you will know why we are wondering how you are alive...ta da...things worked out. I had a crash plan that offered me a chance.
You did read my post right.
I think I have conditioned myself and practiced certain mental things to give myself a chance vs. someone that has not.
We all heard of muscle memory, well I am practicing brain memory.
Good luck to you as you are heading into the side of a minivan or moose. ABS or no ABS, you are going to impact...now what...are you in mental control or are you in panic mode.
van+you+bike = maximum hurt
van+bike-you = less hurt
-D-
Banned
Oh good........ another ABS thread.
I think a pro rider in a controlled and dry situation might be able to brake more effectively or harder than an ABS system would permit, or maybe not. For everyone else in the real world modern bike ABS is better then non ABS 99.9% of the time, especially in wet conditions, no contest.
I always like the comment that riders want to learn to control their braking right up to the threshold (as if ABS prevents this) and this is a reason to not have ABS on motorcycles. The whole point of ABS is that as long as your wheel is turning it is not on, as the wheel crosses the threshold and stops turning ABS kicks and keeps that wheel turning just at that precise threshold point to maximize braking effectiveness. You can practice threshold braking until the cows come home and you can perfect your technique as ABS will never kick in unless that wheel stops turning. Or, you can just slam on the brakes and stop harder and faster.
I think a pro rider in a controlled and dry situation might be able to brake more effectively or harder than an ABS system would permit, or maybe not. For everyone else in the real world modern bike ABS is better then non ABS 99.9% of the time, especially in wet conditions, no contest.
I always like the comment that riders want to learn to control their braking right up to the threshold (as if ABS prevents this) and this is a reason to not have ABS on motorcycles. The whole point of ABS is that as long as your wheel is turning it is not on, as the wheel crosses the threshold and stops turning ABS kicks and keeps that wheel turning just at that precise threshold point to maximize braking effectiveness. You can practice threshold braking until the cows come home and you can perfect your technique as ABS will never kick in unless that wheel stops turning. Or, you can just slam on the brakes and stop harder and faster.
A 5kph impact could still ram your nuts thru the clocks. Why are people being so obtuse, any sort of incident calls for pro active rider input to the bitter end if possible. If that requires launching yourself free of any entanglements so be it. You don't see pro racers calling it a day the second they crash. Learn from the pros.
-D-
Banned
I do the same with brain memory. I practice mixed martial arts and am training for UFC all with my brain. think i will win?
M
Make sure you let us know your results.
btw in Nascar they teach the drivers when they are about to crash to close their eyes and let their bodies go limp...hmmm stupid science.
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-D-
Banned
There you go again...making sense
Why do they bother wearing a helmet, jacket, gloves, suits, back protectors, airbags...I mean why don't they just strap the racers/riders down to the seat (seatbelt) to keep rider and bike as one unit.
statsman
Well-known member
When BMW first introduced ABS for motorcycles back in the 1980s it was presented as a panacea.
The system was smarter than the rider. No need to pre plan falls or collisions, ABS will save you.
As we all know, it didn't work out that way.
ABS is an effective tool and there have been occasions in my own riding career where I had it and I used it and it saved me.
But it isn't a replacement for riding skills.
When the deer darts across the road or the SUV cuts you off, you still have the same two options.
Stop or swerve.
And you still have to choose correctly.
ABS can assist in either of these choices, but it can't save you if you picked the wrong one.
The system was smarter than the rider. No need to pre plan falls or collisions, ABS will save you.
As we all know, it didn't work out that way.
ABS is an effective tool and there have been occasions in my own riding career where I had it and I used it and it saved me.
But it isn't a replacement for riding skills.
When the deer darts across the road or the SUV cuts you off, you still have the same two options.
Stop or swerve.
And you still have to choose correctly.
ABS can assist in either of these choices, but it can't save you if you picked the wrong one.
Many companies will refuse to insure older vehicles.
Face
Well-known member
^^This^^
All ABS are not created equal. My first bike had first gen ABS, average brakes & suspension. Get it on bouncy irregular pavement where the suspension was not good at keeping the front tire on the road and the ABS pulses were horrible and control and braking suffered. My 2nd bike didn't have ABS, but the suspension, braking feel and stopping power were much better. I debated not getting it because it didn't have ABS, but the overall improved braking and other factors made me decide to go for it.
As Brian says, these days ABS tech has moved ahead by leaps and bounds. I don't understand why anyone would even question getting it. Its more a case of what level ABS tech are you prepared to pay for, but even the more basic ABS on a 2016 bike is so much better than 8 years ago.
Shaman
Well-known member
I was floating the rear tire into Allan's at Shannonville on my RSV4s without the ABS intervening (though this was on heated slicks of course). The point being is that ABS did not intervene with hard braking or rear wheel lift (I had it set to not consider rear wheel lift) at all and let me brake deeply with really strong brakes (brembo m50). Aprilia uses the Bosch 9MP system with their own code, but newer S1000RRs using the same 9MP hardware appear to be just as good.
Only time I feel the ABS on my RSV4 is hard braking over a large bump or similar; I also have mine on the lowest intervention setting.. 9mp is a great system, and pretty much the go to these days. Even Honda has ditched their proprietary system in favour of a Bosch unit on the new Blade
I can get KIBS to cut in and out when braking on washboard pavement ... but even non-ABS brakes would be cutting in and out on that pavement due to the wheel sometimes having lots of grip and sometimes having none. (the wheel tries to lock up on the down side of each bump and then recovers on the up side of the next one). The KIBS-equipped bike is in no way "worse" than the non-ABS bike there.
yodude
Banned
i have zero abs bike time, do have some big rigs time tho,
when there is snow & it is slick, the only way you can start out or move is spinning the rears, more often than not
you can't even use a traction controlled truck in those conditions, try to get going from any snowed in (& doesn't take much) spot,
or can easily end up unable to move forward pft pft pft (air system) pft at any time, from a stop cos of tc
same deal can come up braking where about all you get is pft pft pft,
shoulda said given a choice, i'm good with the good ol' days,
on lotsa cars, any abs isuues gets you non abs,
abs & tc can also bring on huge maintenance/money issues & be a royal pia to fix, to say the least..
but prob way better overall for most, as far as safety goes,
dunno what the story is these days mixing max performance with abs or tc, sounds like a mixed bag of .....
when there is snow & it is slick, the only way you can start out or move is spinning the rears, more often than not
you can't even use a traction controlled truck in those conditions, try to get going from any snowed in (& doesn't take much) spot,
or can easily end up unable to move forward pft pft pft (air system) pft at any time, from a stop cos of tc
same deal can come up braking where about all you get is pft pft pft,
shoulda said given a choice, i'm good with the good ol' days,
on lotsa cars, any abs isuues gets you non abs,
abs & tc can also bring on huge maintenance/money issues & be a royal pia to fix, to say the least..
but prob way better overall for most, as far as safety goes,
dunno what the story is these days mixing max performance with abs or tc, sounds like a mixed bag of .....
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