and some choice expletives too
Forget Power Commanders! - Attention Rider's Choice
- Thread starter Prince
- Start date
Tripletrouble
Well-known member
I've been flashing the Keihin ecu on my Triumph via the OBDII port for about 6 years now, changing the fuelling and timing and opening the secondary butterflies in all gears etc.
It is possible to copy an exact tune from a dyno'd bike with the same setup as yours and get pretty close to perfect. Minor differences mean your bike could still be optimised with a dyno run of it's own. I'm about to try a tune sent to me by a buddy in Illinois.
It is possible to copy an exact tune from a dyno'd bike with the same setup as yours and get pretty close to perfect. Minor differences mean your bike could still be optimised with a dyno run of it's own. I'm about to try a tune sent to me by a buddy in Illinois.
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Prince
Banned
The trend is starting to go away from the aftermarket altogether, and will continue in the near future. Many people are coming to the realization that the aftermarket is a waste of money. Most slip-ons, and even full systems produce a HP drop (bottom end and top end), until the bike is tuned to that specific exhaust. And even with a proper dyno tune, the small HP gain up top will not be felt 'till quadruple any road speed limits. The small gains will only be felt on a track. You'll have all the HP, Torque loss in the bottom end where you can use it on the street gone due to loss of back-pressure and staggering.
The bikes of the past, the manufacturers (whether deliberate or not), always left room for improvement to leave some meat on the bone for the aftermarket to improve on their bikes. Thus leading to sponsors, thus leading to getting their bikes seen on race tracks around the world on TV, thus leading to sales. Same pieces, (exhaust, air filters, plugs, chains, brake levers, etc). But now, with manufacturers like BMW, Ducati and Aprilia, upping the barr, the big four have had to, and will continue to step up their game to build the ultimate superbike, squeezing out the aftermarket. It was done with cars (goodbye local Perrformance Improvements), it's now happening to bikes. Out-of-the-box, they are just too good to mess with.
Here's a 2010 Suzuki GSXR L0 being dyno'd with the typical upgrades. The mechanic is a good mechanic and is somewhat embarrassed (no fault of his own) by his own video. All that money $2000 + for 6HP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWdRd-VeVyI
I have talked to this mechanic. He no longer uses Power Commanders or Bazazz.
For my own bike, I noticed an engineering defect with Suzuki with their massive cans. Besides the esthetics (looking hideous), there is a safety flaw. At high speeds, the air being deflected off of the cans in a straight line would be grabbed by cross-winds, and (scarily) cause the back end to step out. The M4 fixed that problem, and looks and sounds great. Suzuki clearly has to re-think it's exhaust systems.
Don't waste your money on Power Commanders, or bazazz units. If you go aftermarket exhaust, take your bike to Riders Choice and have them flash the ECU with their Yosh box and you will get a better result for half the cost.
The bikes of the past, the manufacturers (whether deliberate or not), always left room for improvement to leave some meat on the bone for the aftermarket to improve on their bikes. Thus leading to sponsors, thus leading to getting their bikes seen on race tracks around the world on TV, thus leading to sales. Same pieces, (exhaust, air filters, plugs, chains, brake levers, etc). But now, with manufacturers like BMW, Ducati and Aprilia, upping the barr, the big four have had to, and will continue to step up their game to build the ultimate superbike, squeezing out the aftermarket. It was done with cars (goodbye local Perrformance Improvements), it's now happening to bikes. Out-of-the-box, they are just too good to mess with.
Here's a 2010 Suzuki GSXR L0 being dyno'd with the typical upgrades. The mechanic is a good mechanic and is somewhat embarrassed (no fault of his own) by his own video. All that money $2000 + for 6HP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWdRd-VeVyI
I have talked to this mechanic. He no longer uses Power Commanders or Bazazz.
For my own bike, I noticed an engineering defect with Suzuki with their massive cans. Besides the esthetics (looking hideous), there is a safety flaw. At high speeds, the air being deflected off of the cans in a straight line would be grabbed by cross-winds, and (scarily) cause the back end to step out. The M4 fixed that problem, and looks and sounds great. Suzuki clearly has to re-think it's exhaust systems.
Don't waste your money on Power Commanders, or bazazz units. If you go aftermarket exhaust, take your bike to Riders Choice and have them flash the ECU with their Yosh box and you will get a better result for half the cost.
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I had the choice of reflash or PC after doing the mods on my GSXR. After talking to Z1cycletech where I was going to get the reflash and yosh box they made it technically clear the PC was a much better choice (and advised to look around for a used PC to save some cash so basically they were giving the best advice even though it wasn't making them money). Not that Z1 has been known to be great tuners or anything......
TorontoBusa
Well-known member
What does it cost to have the Power Commander tuned on a dyno? And how long does it take?
Not everyone is putting aftermarket stuff on their bike because of increasing already high stock HP number. For some sensible people it's also about weight reduction and better fuel consumption at part throttle, so the whole argument 2K bought me 6HP or whatever is quite laughable. Unless you race a bike of course .... but I bet we are not discussing such application here.
What do you do if you have a bike other than a Suzuki?
All of which tells me that if you want to save money just keep your stock exhaust, because the gains for the street will be minimal, and save your money for tires.
I know one thing: though I am cheap on spending on after-market stuff, the 275$ I paid for a PC V for my (then) new VFR800 was the best money spent this year; totally eliminated the jerkiness (which the dealer said it's 'normal' for a V4 compared to inline4 where I was coming from) and smoothened up the power band (incl the vtech kick) - and that's all with the pre-loaded OEM stock/air filter map (which is done in NEvada, where their lab is, I guess). I was also considering to get the Autotune module for it (onother 200$) but not sure if it can be any better than that. And it was a 20mins install.
