whos fault?

T

toekneekey

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I am pretty sure you would be legally at fault, though someone else will cite the HTA section.

Insurance-wise according to Ontario Fault Determination Rules you would be at fault 100%. You need to give her room because she has right of way. Even if she does not have right of way, she can squish you like a bug, so why risk your life, limb and bike? If this has happened to you multiple times you might rethink how you change lanes. You are not a car, so the consequences for a minor "fender bender" are much higher. Think and look way ahead, like 20 seconds ahead, and plan your lane change accordingly.

Fault Determination Rules said:
Rules for Automobiles Travelling in the Same Direction in Adjacent Lane

10. (4) If the incident occurs when automobile “B” is changing lanes, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.

Diagram
image17.gif

R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 10 (4).
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woww seriously? I was merging along with the car infront and that piece of **** came out of nowhere... and where she came from wasnt even a lane. she was probably impatient and tried to go to the left lane early.
 
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toekneekey said:
woww seriously? I was merging along with the car infront and that piece of **** came out of nowhere... and where she came from wasnt even a lane. she was probably impatient and tried to go to the left lane early.
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It is your responsibility to make a safe lane change. Even if it involves a crwazy biatch.
 
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TorontoBoy said:
I am pretty sure you would be legally at fault, though someone else will cite the HTA section.

Insurance-wise according to Ontario Fault Determination Rules you would be at fault 100%. You need to give her room because she has right of way. Even if she does not have right of way, she can squish you like a bug, so why risk your life, limb and bike? If this has happened to you multiple times you might rethink how you change lanes. You are not a car, so the consequences for a minor "fender bender" are much higher. Think and look way ahead, like 20 seconds ahead, and plan your lane change accordingly.
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Maybe not. Your example from the fault determination rules assumes that all vehicles are in their proper running lanes.

Go look at the street view and the lane markings on the southbound Jane approach to Tretheway, with specific reference to the yellow lines marking the start of the north and southbound turn lanes. http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=jane+a...oid=EjcsJkJitANqNHBtWAog_g&cbp=12,162.68,,0,0

If the southbound car prematurely jumped into the northbound turn lane in order to advance around traffic in the correct lanes ahead of her, then she would not be in her proper running lane. The OP is still responsible for ensuring the way is safe before changing lanes, but any deemed %age fault to the OP would be lower as a result of the other driver's driving error.

On the other hand, if she entered the turn lane only when it was proper for her to do so, and the bike then dove in front of her to gain a position, then the bike would arguably be at fault.
 
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turbodish said:
On the other hand, if she entered the turn lane only when it was proper for her to do so, and the bike then dove in front of her to gain a position, then the bike would arguably be at fault.
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nooo I didn't do that. But thank you for clearing that up, because it didn't make much sense for me to be at fault when I merge onto the left lane at the earliest time possible.
 
toekneekey said:
nooo I didn't do that. But thank you for clearing that up, because it didn't make much sense for me to be at fault when I merge onto the left lane at the earliest time possible.
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The way to look at it is, you might be 100% right but, at what cost to you?

I'm not sure if I completely understand what happened because vehicles don't come out of no where. Trying to see things your way, I would say if you are traveling in the left lane, moved to the left track of the lane or already are travelling in the left track of the lane, signalled to indicate entering the left turning lane and enter the left turning lane as soon as it becomes a lane, you should be fine.

I think if you hesitate enterring the left turn lane, traffic from behind may try to enter the left turning lane asap to catch the advance. Or if you are traveling in the right track of the left lane, even signalling your intentions to enter the left turn lane, traffic from behind may not interpret your actions properly.


Depending on witnesses, clarity of the statements involved etc, the cop may just write a report and not charge anyone. Even if only one party is charged, the insurance company can assign their own fault based on the statements, police report and fault chart.

If it's not safe to enter the left turning lane due to traffic from behind, go through the intersection and turn at the next one. Usually, you should be good as long as enter the left turning lane as soon as the lane begins.
 
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nakkers said:
The way to look at it is, you might be 100% right but, at what cost to you?

I'm not sure if I completely understand what happened because vehicles don't come out of no where. Trying to see things your way, I would say if you are traveling in the left lane, moved to the left track of the lane or already are travelling in the left track of the lane, signalled to indicate entering the left turning lane and enter the left turning lane as soon as it becomes a lane, you should be fine.
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This was exactly what I was doing, and yes I even signaled. I should invest in a camera, been getting close calls almost every week.. Just this one really p1ssed me off because she gave me the finger. The last guy that almost hit me, said "we cant see you in the blind spot," bunch of dumbass drivers in Toronto.
 
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toekneekey said:
This was exactly what I was doing, and yes I even signaled. I should invest in a camera, been getting close calls almost every week.. Just this one really p1ssed me off because she gave me the finger. The last guy that almost hit me, said "we cant see you in the blind spot," bunch of dumbass drivers in Toronto.
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Camera is not going to save you. Just be alert and like many people have said - ride like you're invisible.
 
toekneekey said:
View attachment 25639 sorry for bad picture. But this just happened to me on Jane and Tretheway

.http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=jane%20and%20tretheway&biw=1366&bih=643&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

I was on Jane making a left turn into the left turn lane and this ***** almost hit me. I honked and she gave me the finger..... wanted slap that dumb *****. This happened to me twice, if I were to get hit, who would be at fault?
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LOL :)

I love your diagram, "dumb ****ing ***** trying to hit me".
 
Oh I think I get it. She drove in the opposite side of traffic to get into the left turn lanes quicker. That SHOULD be her fault then. She is crossing the yellow.

Your MS paint skills are ****.
 
I was told 35 years ago in driving school that hashed lines can be ignored when getting into the left turn lane. I'm not sure if this is true anymore. I don't think that you can ignore a lane in the opposite direction however. I've been known to pull the minivan into my left turn lane and force the joker trying to go the wrong way to move out of the lane, I wouldn't do that if I was on a bike though.
 
Alvito said:
Oh I think I get it. She drove in the opposite side of traffic to get into the left turn lanes quicker. That SHOULD be her fault then. She is crossing the yellow.

Your MS paint skills are ****.
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I made that while i was mad.. I made another one to satisfy you.
 
The other issue is that if you are 100% right, but she manages to put you into an ambulance, and exaggerates while explaining the situation to the cop, you could end up being charged instead of her.
 
its her fault....but any accident on a motorcycle is always rider fault as it affects the rider a lot more (learnt it the hard way)
 
toekneekey said:
woww seriously? I was merging along with the car infront and that piece of **** came out of nowhere... and where she came from wasnt even a lane. she was probably impatient and tried to go to the left lane early.
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From what I am gathering here, the homicidal cager was traveling left of center, contrary to HTA 149 (1). As well, even if the cager found themself in a position where they could go around stopped traffic to enter the left-turn lane, then THEY are responsible to ensure that they can pass safely, per HTA 148 (8 ).

It is a matter of personal responsibility that you should ensure that the way is clear, but from the situation you describe, it would not be your fault.

ps: was in an accident once, similar to this. My dad was making a left turn through stopped traffic, in an area that was ahead of the turn lane. An SUV was travelling for more than 100m in the oncoming lane to get to the left turn lane. This was unexpected, and it hit us. The SUV was at fault.
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