D
Dr. Luxurious
Guest
i guess instead of relying on your ABS , slowing down for the conditions (blind corner in the wet) was not an option ?
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Yamaha. WTF !!
- Thread starter Skyway6
- Start date
i guess instead of relying on your ABS , slowing down for the conditions (blind corner in the wet) was not an option ?
Can you name such a situation in which the technology can't help because the user never learnt proper technique and skills, because of that technology? I can't think of any, off the top of my head. ABS/TCS can't really help you in a corner because of the lateral forces (though I'm reliably told that with modern systems even that is debatable), but then again it doesn't interfere with learning how to properly deal with a corner. Running off and ending up in sand/grass? More likely to help you stay upright, if you know how to use it. Something else?
I would say that ABS/TCS will out perform 99% of street riders, regardless of their self perceived skill levels, in perfect conditions. As we all know, conditions are rarely perfect. Perhaps in your case you wouldn't have had to rely on luck to save you. And that's what it likely was, rather than skill. Been there myself more than once though thankfully not in some years, thanks to toning down my riding style.
I think that the following is the most telling. When BMW first brought their TCS equipped bikes to the Parts Canada Superbike series Mike Ferreira used it, but Francis Martin had it turned off. Ferreira was riding as well if ever, if not better. Martin was riding well, but not as well as I've seen him, as he came to terms with the new bike. By mid season the TCS was turned back on. I've watched Francis ride for more than a decade. I've been taught by him at FAST. I'll take his word on TCS, as I really doubt that there are many, if any riders on this site who can match him.
Practice your threshold braking. But do it at slow speeds, and don't forget to keep your Centre of Gravity low.
[video=youtube;icveofLx25M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icveofLx25M[/video]
Oh, and a final thing that I like about ABS is that I'm not afraid of using my rear brake to stop me faster.
How many people on refuse to use the rear brake now?
[video=youtube;icveofLx25M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icveofLx25M[/video]
Oh, and a final thing that I like about ABS is that I'm not afraid of using my rear brake to stop me faster.
How many people on refuse to use the rear brake now?
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/brochures/motorcycle-abs-why-you-want-to-ride-with-it
The rate of fatal crashes is 31 percent lower for motorcycles equipped with optional ABS than for those same models without ABS.
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 2013
Collision insurance claims for motorcycles with ABS are filed 20 percent less frequently than for motorcycles without it — 31 percent when the ABS bikes have combined controls.
- ABS doesn't affect normal braking — you notice it only in an emergency.
- Both conventional braking systems and combined braking systems, which link one or both controls to both wheels, can have ABS.
- Today's systems can be as light as a pound and a half, so there's no drag on performance.
On motorcycle with ABS, you lose the ability to lock up the rear wheel at will.
I believe this ability should be allowed to happen.
Sure, I believe ABS should can be useful, but, on the front wheel only. I really don't want my front wheel locking.
I have been in a situation where ABS would have killed me.
Middle lane of the 401. Large space opens up in front of me. I crack the throttle.
Problem was, Go bus on my left decides to cut in and take advantage of the open space as well, he never saw me coming.
OK, I give her some more gas to get out of the way of the bus.
Second problem, Large dump truck on my right decides he wans the open space as well. He wants to beat the bus to the spot. He never saw me either.
Now he cuts in hard and fast, I am powering up the middle with no place to go. Because the two large vehicles are converging on me, the bus first, I was cutting over in my lane towards the dump truck, then as he cuts over I am so close to him, my bar almost hit him. I had to nail the rear brake so that I could match his angle quickly and steer away from him and slow down at he same time.
Because I was able to skid to the right angle, I saved it.
If I had not been able to skid I would be dead right now.
I believe this ability should be allowed to happen.
Sure, I believe ABS should can be useful, but, on the front wheel only. I really don't want my front wheel locking.
I have been in a situation where ABS would have killed me.
Middle lane of the 401. Large space opens up in front of me. I crack the throttle.
Problem was, Go bus on my left decides to cut in and take advantage of the open space as well, he never saw me coming.
OK, I give her some more gas to get out of the way of the bus.
Second problem, Large dump truck on my right decides he wans the open space as well. He wants to beat the bus to the spot. He never saw me either.
Now he cuts in hard and fast, I am powering up the middle with no place to go. Because the two large vehicles are converging on me, the bus first, I was cutting over in my lane towards the dump truck, then as he cuts over I am so close to him, my bar almost hit him. I had to nail the rear brake so that I could match his angle quickly and steer away from him and slow down at he same time.
Because I was able to skid to the right angle, I saved it.
If I had not been able to skid I would be dead right now.
Or you could have had more braking force available and been able to slow more quickly, avoiding the squeeze play. Being able to lock up the rear brake is of limited usefulness to mere humans. It's slightly more useful on the street than is "layin' 'er down."
Too many people don't know how to use the rear brake. I use it all the time.
Lol that'll never happen, those guys know how to ride.
RichinOville
Well-known member
I hope I will never HAVE to ride a bike with ABS or Traction control.
I hate them both.
I have a 2008 Corolla without any driver aids, except for mirror control. I drove, off and on, my wife's 2007 AWD Rav4 with ALL the bells and whistles for about 8 months. And keep in mind that we actually have winter up here. My car could probably stop faster than her's in winter. I've lost count of how many stops signs I blew because the f'ing ABS wouldn't engage the brakes as fast as I would like. I could drive for half a block with the peddle just vibrating while it didn't try to stop. And that is from only 40kmph.
No thanks. I think that I would like to keep 100% control of my own vehicle, thank you very much.
I hate them both.
I have a 2008 Corolla without any driver aids, except for mirror control. I drove, off and on, my wife's 2007 AWD Rav4 with ALL the bells and whistles for about 8 months. And keep in mind that we actually have winter up here. My car could probably stop faster than her's in winter. I've lost count of how many stops signs I blew because the f'ing ABS wouldn't engage the brakes as fast as I would like. I could drive for half a block with the peddle just vibrating while it didn't try to stop. And that is from only 40kmph.
No thanks. I think that I would like to keep 100% control of my own vehicle, thank you very much.
Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps actually having a reasonable braking force on the rear tire would have been of more benefit than having it slide with greatly reduced traction.
In the greater scheme of things your story is much like the guy who drives his car into a lake and then says that he would have drowned, if he'd been wearing his seat belt.
Unique case? We use to hear all of these excuses for reasons why cars should not have abs or seat belts in case the rear occurrence of your car catching on fire or becoming submerged.
This thread has departed away from the intent of the OP saying how disappointed that Yamaha decided to ignore 50% of market that prefer to have abs on their next bike. (Not my figures as I believe it is higher) This is why most bikes including entry model 300 bikes are equipped with abs.
Maybe Yamaha has decided to focus these models to people that do not want abs.
ABS is like having good riding gear, it is nice to have it if you ever need it as it has no impact on the sporting engagement with your bike in 99.9% of the time when you use it.
This thread has departed away from the intent of the OP saying how disappointed that Yamaha decided to ignore 50% of market that prefer to have abs on their next bike. (Not my figures as I believe it is higher) This is why most bikes including entry model 300 bikes are equipped with abs.
Maybe Yamaha has decided to focus these models to people that do not want abs.
ABS is like having good riding gear, it is nice to have it if you ever need it as it has no impact on the sporting engagement with your bike in 99.9% of the time when you use it.
What if you'd ridden at a reasonable speed, and anticipated that other drivers would move into a big opening.
You have to be more careful when passing to the right of someone.
Chasem
Well-known member
Pretty dramatic story, but hardly relevant to ABS. Not believing for a second that ABS would miraculously kill you. What next? Your jacket almost killed you because it got caught on something.
Did your car have winter tires and hers summers...? (probably)
This thread is getting hilarious, people seemingly think they can consistently brake better than ABS (and safely on a motorcycle)
It's like all ABS threads. Everyone is above average, and there's always the unique story with a convoluted explanation why locking a wheel saved them (these stories are starting to re-appear), and most have no clue how ABS actually works.
There are reasons why BMW owners have the lowest insurance premiums, and ABS is the one factor in lower car crash rates over the last ten years as the fleet gets replaced with ABS braked cars. People forget the common sight of spinning cars after panic braking collecting other cars and bikes and crossing medians. Winter crash rates have dropped, and could be lower with proper winter tires (which Ontario refuses to make law). Now we just have to watch out for 08 Toyotas.
Yamaha's decision to avoid ABS is about price cutting, which has been there market approach with new generation bikes like the MT09, MT07 and R3.
Cheap brakes, cheap suspension, cheap finish. In the case of the R3, they purposely put a weak front brake to avoid lockups.
Yamaha pays a lot of money to the media to cheerlead their bikes by only talking about the engines, but anyone who knows those bikes there has been a significant design quality drop with the new generation budget bikes. Big design drop between an FZ6 and a MT07.
Bottom line, Yamaha does not give a f-ck about riders after the check clears. The only reason why they have ABS in Europe is that it is law in 2016, and many 15s don't sell until 2016, but Europe is always ahead of the curve from NA. The US still has states without helmets, and the same arguments are regurgitated with ABS, just find and replace.
TK4
Well-known member
Fascinating editorial statements, what evidence can you provide to back any of them up ?
The fit, finish and braking on the R3 is as good as anything else in its class (IMHO).
The FZ6 is a good motorcycle, but so are the FZ07/MT07s and FZ09/MT09s. They are just aimed at different riders.
"Yamaha doesn't care about riders after the cheque clears" - compared to who ?
The North American market is a tough one right now, all the manufacturers are struggling for a slice of a shrinking pie.
Price is one important consideration for any new bike buyer, not to mention insurance and maintenance costs.
ABS, if it fails, is an expensive repair.
I'm not defending Yamaha specifically, just saying have a look at the bigger picture...
TK4
Well-known member
Amen to that !
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