Insurance with an M1 license | GTAMotorcycle.com

Insurance with an M1 license

Beakster

Member
Hi,

I learned to ride in the UK and I now have a full M license, so I'm not particularly familiar with the system here so need a bit of advice please.

I ride a 2007 Triumph Bonneville (865cc) and I'm trying to get my girlfriend into riding. I bought a 1978 Kawasaki KZ 200 (200cc) for her to learn on and I started teaching her the basics in a big empty car park. I had contacted my insurance company and asked for some quotes for what it would cost to insure her but they said they couldn't provide a quote until she had a license. On Saturday she sat the M1 theory test and passed so we started looking at quotes today.

The first company has said that with 2 licensed riders and 2 bikes, one rides needs to be the primary on each bike. They've come back with a quote for $4500 per year with Wawanesa for her to ride the Kawasaki which is more than double what I would have hoped would be the maximum. The broker told me she could only find one company who would insure M1 riders.

Now my understanding is that the Ontario Government decided that it would be a good idea to force everyone to hold an M1 for at least 60 days so they can get the necessary experience before receiving the M2 license. At this point with the training and practise she's had in the car park I'm confident she'd pass the M2 test now, but I am not trying to cheat the system. I want to do things the Canadian way and get her the 2 months of experience they prescribe, but at a cost of nearly $800 for insurance for the 2 months until the test I don't think we can afford it.

Again, I don't want to cheat the system or break the rules, but it seems like it would be better to continue to practise off the road and rent a bike for the test even though she will have no on-road experience, that would then give an an extra $700 to put towards riding gear or a newer bike for her. Do most Canadian learners just have to budget this ridiculous insurance cost for their 2 months of M1 license into the cost of learning to ride or does everyone just go against the governments advice and do the M2 test without having a full 2 month of on-road experience?

Any advice appreciated such as insurance company recommendations. I can budget about $200 per month to insure her, but I can't go to $400 per month on top of the $100 I'm paying for my insurance. Currently I'm thinking that we continue the motorcycle practise off-road but buy an e-bike so she can get on-road experience without the massive insurance cost. Would this be satisfactory for the 60 days of M1 experience?

Thanks
 
Why not have her sign up for an MTO approved M1X course ? They will teach her all the basics and do the test, all in one weekend.

Insurance rates will be decent with the course. It's a win-win
 
Why not have her sign up for an MTO approved M1X course ? They will teach her all the basics and do the test, all in one weekend.

Insurance rates will be decent with the course. It's a win-win

Hi, well she's already got all the basics and more so that doesn't sound necessary. Also as she got the M1 on Saturday, it's my understanding she isn't able to do the road test until she has 60 days experience, which would be mid June. Would the course get her an M2 license earlier?
 
Many motorcycle insurance companies will accept the completion certificate of a recognized M1>M2 training course as a defacto M2 licence holder even if you still technically only have an M1 until that waiting period has passed.
 
"The first company has said that with 2 licensed riders and 2 bikes, one rides needs to be the primary on each bike."
That seems wrong :/ my wife can't even ride either of my 2 street bikes, I think they are just saying that because you asked the question.

... correction: she can ride the BMW if I ride on the back and put my feet down when we stop lol

Are both bikes registered in your name?
 
Hi, well she's already got all the basics and more so that doesn't sound necessary. Also as she got the M1 on Saturday, it's my understanding she isn't able to do the road test until she has 60 days experience, which would be mid June. Would the course get her an M2 license earlier?
Welcome to the team.

First, i believe you can schedule the road test for whenever you like, but they won't upgrade your licence until the time period has expired.

Second, no, completing the course will not allow you to upgradeto the M2 within the stated time period. However, there are many benefits to taking the M1 Exit Course.

  1. They don't teach her your bad habits. I think it's fairly self explanatory.
  2. The course is not designed to fail anyone. It's almost 2 full days of practice and learning with an exam during the final few hours
  3. You can get a 20% or more insurance break for about 3 years after completing it.
 
Yes both bikes belong to me and are registered in my name.

I'll keep looking at other companies for insurance and see what comes back. I've asked Dalton Timmins for a quote as apparently they insure M1 riders. Which ever company insures us for the M1 I am likely to stick with for the next few years and we'll only need M1 insurance for less than 2 months, so seems silly that companies won't insure M1 when it will inevitably lead to M2.

Very much feels like a broken system to me. I prefer the UK system of having to pass a 1 day basic compulsory training in order to be allowed on the road with a 125cc maximum displaying Learner plates before passing a test and having restrictions placed on the power of bike you can ride. The Ontario system seems like you can ride whatever you like regardless of experience, provided you can pay the insurance.
 
Correct the system is completely corrupt and broken from the riders perspective.
Tell them they are both your bikes and to sort it out. Yes, they will charge you extra because others in the same household have an M something license.
 
Very much feels like a broken system to me. I prefer the UK system of having to pass a 1 day basic compulsory training in order to be allowed on the road with a 125cc maximum displaying Learner plates before passing a test and having restrictions placed on the power of bike you can ride. The Ontario system seems like you can ride whatever you like regardless of experience, provided you can pay the insurance.
Yup. The current system is barely functional. The government basically leaves it up to insurance companies to turn it into a system that makes sense. This causes chaos as they can (and do) constantly change the rules so it's hard to know what the real situation is. I would much prefer a system that required a decent amount of time (and preferably miles) on a smaller bike before buying something fast and/or heavy. If that means some people don't take up riding because that doesn't fit with their self-image, great, riding wasn't for them anyway. They are the most likely to end up crashing and driving up rates (and public anger) for the rest of us.
 
Hi, well she's already got all the basics and more so that doesn't sound necessary.

Hmm. Sorry, not really any of my business but I don't like the sound of this. Approved courses pack a lot of stuff into 2 days and an evening, moving one from "the basics" to being a decent rider with things beyond "the basics" such as situational awareness, emergency maneuvers and a pretty good level of motorcycle control and handling, not to mention a pretty comprehensive in-class portion.

I would never recommend a novice rider -- let alone a loved one -- take to the streets without having had formal training. YMMV.
 
Hi, well she's already got all the basics and more so that doesn't sound necessary.

Trust me, there are a LOT of even life long riders out there who could take the M1>M2 course and come out a better rider because of it.

We all hear it time and time again that people "don't think they need it", but honestly, you WILL learn things and you WILL come out the other end a safer and better rider.

so seems silly that companies won't insure M1 when it will inevitably lead to M2.

It's HOW people get the M2 that the insurance companies care about. The MTO method proves very little other then ones ability to manage to ride between some cones without dumping the bike and a few other very rudimentary skills - it's stupid easy

As for the whole system being borked, I would tend to agree - I remember when the M1/M2 graduated licensing thing came along the goal was well meaning - it was better than the old system. That said, given the ever increasing insurance issues it doesn't surprise me that insurance companies are now more or less effectively requiring the M1X training courses for underwriting purposes. Should the province perhaps revamp the system to a more euro style CC limited program vs the "You have an M2, go buy that Busa now!" routine we have here? I'd certain agree it wouldn't be a bad idea, but my bet is on the fact that there would be a massive uproar from manufacturers and MC dealers here if that was attempted - after all, we know most MC dealers are all about putting even a brand new rider on the biggest/most expensive/highest CC bike they can possibly afford, not necessarily what they should be starting on, right?
 
Trust me, there are a LOT of even life long riders out there who could take the M1>M2 course and come out a better rider because of it.

We all hear it time and time again that people "don't think they need it", but honestly, you WILL learn things and you WILL come out the other end a safer and better rider.



It's HOW people get the M2 that the insurance companies care about. The MTO method proves very little other then ones ability to manage to ride between some cones without dumping the bike and a few other very rudimentary skills - it's stupid easy

As for the whole system being borked, I would tend to agree - I remember when the M1/M2 graduated licensing thing came along the goal was well meaning - it was better than the old system. That said, given the ever increasing insurance issues it doesn't surprise me that insurance companies are now more or less effectively requiring the M1X training courses for underwriting purposes. Should the province perhaps revamp the system to a more euro style CC limited program vs the "You have an M2, go buy that Busa now!" routine we have here? I'd certain agree it wouldn't be a bad idea, but my bet is on the fact that there would be a massive uproar from manufacturers and MC dealers here if that was attempted - after all, we know most MC dealers are all about putting even a brand new rider on the biggest/most expensive/highest CC bike they can possibly afford, not necessarily what they should be starting on, right?

I got my M self taught when they first came out a half century ago. When I got back into riding after the family thing I took a safety course at Humber and it saved my bacon more than once.

Some aspects of the system suck as everyone is clumped into the average mold. It would suck even more if they had to design a system for each prospective rider.

As you wisely state, don't cheat the system. The insurance companies have the monopoly on that.
 

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