49cc moped, bicycle with motor
- Thread starter boyoboy
- Start date
Not legal for road use in Ontario.
Doesn't qualify as a bicycle, because it's motorized.
Doesn't qualify as an e-bike, because it's not electric.
Doesn't qualify as a moped (or limited speed motorcycle or anything else), because it has no license plate and it cannot get a license plate because it doesn't have a declaration of conformity to CMVSS, and you can't get such a declaration, because it doesn't conform!
Doesn't qualify as a bicycle, because it's motorized.
Doesn't qualify as an e-bike, because it's not electric.
Doesn't qualify as a moped (or limited speed motorcycle or anything else), because it has no license plate and it cannot get a license plate because it doesn't have a declaration of conformity to CMVSS, and you can't get such a declaration, because it doesn't conform!
turn off the engine and start peddling when you see cops.
make sure the kid has a helmet.
get ready for unexpected trouble.
mmmmmmmm
Not so sure of all that Brian.
When they were writing the laws for electric bikes, I am quite sure they included gas powered... or steam powered or atomic powered or pretty well anything powered, as long as it doesn't exceed 32 KMH.
Schwinn Whizzer's anyone?
(There's a guy out here in Mississauga that I see most mornings on Dundas with a mountain bike with a small two stroke, with a BIG FAT expansion chamber... doing about 80, passing everyone on Dundas).
...oh, if the motor is one of those cheapo chinese kits... it's total junk.
Not so sure of all that Brian.
When they were writing the laws for electric bikes, I am quite sure they included gas powered... or steam powered or atomic powered or pretty well anything powered, as long as it doesn't exceed 32 KMH.
Schwinn Whizzer's anyone?
(There's a guy out here in Mississauga that I see most mornings on Dundas with a mountain bike with a small two stroke, with a BIG FAT expansion chamber... doing about 80, passing everyone on Dundas).
...oh, if the motor is one of those cheapo chinese kits... it's total junk.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK165 (see the definitions in the beginning, and also section 103.1)
Now, follow me for a moment ...
The device in question is a "motor assisted bicycle". Doesn't have to be electric to fit this definition - it doesn't matter at this line in the definitions.
The definition of "motor vehicle" includes "motor assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act" but it excludes "power assisted bicycle".
The term "power assisted bicycle" doesn't do you any good because it has to be in compliance with the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (this is where the e-bikes fit into). A home-built contraption has no such (legal) label and declaration.
So, that means it is a "motor vehicle".
And that means it is subject to EVERY requirement in the HTA that applies to a "motor vehicle". License plate, vehicle registration documents, insurance, lighting, etc.
And you can't get that license plate and registration documentation for something that doesn't have a (legal) VIN.
And you can't get a VIN for a bicycle with an engine on it ...
Now, follow me for a moment ...
The device in question is a "motor assisted bicycle". Doesn't have to be electric to fit this definition - it doesn't matter at this line in the definitions.
The definition of "motor vehicle" includes "motor assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act" but it excludes "power assisted bicycle".
The term "power assisted bicycle" doesn't do you any good because it has to be in compliance with the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (this is where the e-bikes fit into). A home-built contraption has no such (legal) label and declaration.
So, that means it is a "motor vehicle".
And that means it is subject to EVERY requirement in the HTA that applies to a "motor vehicle". License plate, vehicle registration documents, insurance, lighting, etc.
And you can't get that license plate and registration documentation for something that doesn't have a (legal) VIN.
And you can't get a VIN for a bicycle with an engine on it ...
LannyNguyen
Well-known member
Yep,
if I can remember, without license, insurance, can get you maximum fine of $5000.
Then towing fees, and impound fees. (yes for a bicycle too).
LannyNguyen
Well-known member
Municiple laws..lol
Also liability and insurance fairness for other vehicles on the road. I really wish you need licenses and insurance for those damn ebikes though. Those "riders" always ride their crap on the sidewalks and breaking traffic laws too.
silverbullet132
Well-known member
I wonder what the laws would be for one of those motorized bikes honda/etc made for Japan after ww2? Same deal?
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Sent from my SH-02E using Tapatalk 2
I see these on the road all the time and wonder how they get away with it. There's a guy that rides one around downtown Guelph with the engine screaming away (drawing lots of attention) and he never seems to get hassled. I've seen him ride it past cops several times.
I think it's one of those things that you could probably get away with it for awhile but if something goes bad, you could be facing a LOT of trouble. It's not street legal and if the cops were to throw the book at you you could get a ticket for no motorcycle license (assuming the rider doesn't have one), no DOT-approved helmet (unless you wear a motorcycle helmet), no plate, no insurance, etc. Fines could add up quick. And if you manage to kill someone or damage a vehicle with it, all those costs are coming out of your pocket since you have no insurance.
I think it's one of those things that you could probably get away with it for awhile but if something goes bad, you could be facing a LOT of trouble. It's not street legal and if the cops were to throw the book at you you could get a ticket for no motorcycle license (assuming the rider doesn't have one), no DOT-approved helmet (unless you wear a motorcycle helmet), no plate, no insurance, etc. Fines could add up quick. And if you manage to kill someone or damage a vehicle with it, all those costs are coming out of your pocket since you have no insurance.
Okay, a lot of confusion in this thread.
A gasoline-engine moped is classed with scooters as a limited speed motorbike and the MTO basically treats the two types of vehicles as virtually identical. You need a Motorbike license or an ML (limited-speed motorbike license) to ride one, just as you do a scooter. You also need some form of valid insurance.
They always needed to be plated, but licensing-wise, they used to be treated similarly e-bikes are now, but a little under 10 years ago they decided to make them licensed like scooters*. You can get plates for them, and I have two plated mopeds now (though the stickers have long since expired since I haven't ridden them in years - they need restoration work). Moped plates are red with white lettering (essentially the same thing as those aqua-coloured scooter plates) to distinguish them from proper full-size motorbike plates.
I don't know the current process for getting unlicensed imports tagged, but such vehicles do exist and there are still a few moped dealers in Canada selling new models such as Tomos. Your problem may not be that moped can't be licensed at all (they can and are), but that your moped may be treated like a foreign personal import, which adds paperwork and trouble, just as it does with a car.
You may wish to seek out a moped dealer who might be kind enough to help you out with more up-to-date advice, as they should be pretty familiar with current plating requirements.
*This was kind of cool for me, because they gave everybody who legally owned a moped at the time a grandfathered full ML-license, if they didn't already have one. Though the process of getting that upgraded to a full M after that was a comical nightmare.
A gasoline-engine moped is classed with scooters as a limited speed motorbike and the MTO basically treats the two types of vehicles as virtually identical. You need a Motorbike license or an ML (limited-speed motorbike license) to ride one, just as you do a scooter. You also need some form of valid insurance.
They always needed to be plated, but licensing-wise, they used to be treated similarly e-bikes are now, but a little under 10 years ago they decided to make them licensed like scooters*. You can get plates for them, and I have two plated mopeds now (though the stickers have long since expired since I haven't ridden them in years - they need restoration work). Moped plates are red with white lettering (essentially the same thing as those aqua-coloured scooter plates) to distinguish them from proper full-size motorbike plates.
I don't know the current process for getting unlicensed imports tagged, but such vehicles do exist and there are still a few moped dealers in Canada selling new models such as Tomos. Your problem may not be that moped can't be licensed at all (they can and are), but that your moped may be treated like a foreign personal import, which adds paperwork and trouble, just as it does with a car.
You may wish to seek out a moped dealer who might be kind enough to help you out with more up-to-date advice, as they should be pretty familiar with current plating requirements.
*This was kind of cool for me, because they gave everybody who legally owned a moped at the time a grandfathered full ML-license, if they didn't already have one. Though the process of getting that upgraded to a full M after that was a comical nightmare.
No, I'm not, but "nearly impossible" is not "impossible". There's always some sort of legal path, though it might be tortuous and not worth your time or money.
For further advice, you might try asking here: http://www.torontomopeds.com/ or see if you can contact some local scooter clubs with regards to what they do for imports or older bikes put back into service. Whenever I see HTA or MTO entries for mopeds it's always in the same breath as scooters, so I would be very surprised if the two were treated all that different for registration purposes.
For further advice, you might try asking here: http://www.torontomopeds.com/ or see if you can contact some local scooter clubs with regards to what they do for imports or older bikes put back into service. Whenever I see HTA or MTO entries for mopeds it's always in the same breath as scooters, so I would be very surprised if the two were treated all that different for registration purposes.
DoubleJ
Well-known member
Only difference is you do not need a safety with a "REAL" moped. Can be plated with no problem. Don't have paperwork then you need to get a notorized bill of sale and full description. No big deal. Need a M or similar endorsement with insurance coverage and the UVIP if available. Have 3 mopeds registered.
cknowles
Well-known member
Police in Hamilton don't seem to interested in these bikes at all, I'm guessing they see them as similar to e-bikes.
There are a few kids in my area that ride them to work all summer.
I've heard rumors about loopholes but haven't been able to find anything specific yet.
The only thing likely to happen is you may get tagged for speeding if you're over the legal limit, same as you can be on a
pedal bicycle.
There are a few kids in my area that ride them to work all summer.
I've heard rumors about loopholes but haven't been able to find anything specific yet.
The only thing likely to happen is you may get tagged for speeding if you're over the legal limit, same as you can be on a
pedal bicycle.
