Ok, then your first option is less likely to get stolen and be there forever.
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2023 125 ST PAPIO
- Thread starter guzzirider
- Start date
And all of us old enough to remember that, are old enough to remember that all the hate and disparaging remarks about quality was directed at Japan... just like all the hate and disparaging remarks about quality are directed at China now.
Don't like stuff made in China? Don't buy it.
In 1969 would you want a CB750... or a (made in america) AMF Sportster?
TK4
Well-known member
Maybe that's because nobody has bought one ? Go ahead, be the first.
TK4
Well-known member
Here you go -
www.theautopian.com
I Bought A Wicked Motorcycle With Less Power Than Your Lawnmower, Here's Why It's So Crazy Fun - The Autopian
The Rad $3,299 2024 CFMoto Papio SS motorcycle makes less power than a lawnmower. Yet, it's some of the most fun you'll ever have. Here's why.
www.theautopian.com
Relax
Well-known member
Not sure if you reddit, but some of the subs are very helpful (but careful they may turn into echo chambers of positive vibes).
A solid contender that's come up in some of those threads has been the Ninja 400 as they can be had for a good price, and you always have that network that's behind them.
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100%. GTAM is great for a local perspective on riding, but if someone wants model/manufacturer specific information, it's always best to try an owner's group first.
Coming to DSP soon. Thoughts?
www.kovemotocanada.com
Kove Moto Canada - Kove Moto Canada
KOVE MOTO CANADA Elevate Your Ride, Embrace the Kove Join Us Today INTRODUCING KOVE MOTO TO CANADIAN RIDERS. FOCUS ON PERFORMANCE. At Kove Moto Canada, we pride ourselves on being a family-run and operated business deeply rooted in the community of Carstairs, Alberta, since 2006.
www.kovemotocanada.com
guzzirider
Well-known member
They have nothing of interest to me.Coming to DSP soon. Thoughts?
Kove Moto Canada - Kove Moto Canada
KOVE MOTO CANADA Elevate Your Ride, Embrace the Kove Join Us Today INTRODUCING KOVE MOTO TO CANADIAN RIDERS. FOCUS ON PERFORMANCE. At Kove Moto Canada, we pride ourselves on being a family-run and operated business deeply rooted in the community of Carstairs, Alberta, since 2006.
I would consider a new Honda Cub but they are not sold in Canada.
Used ones are either stupid overpriced or beaters.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
There is a difference between China and Japanese manufacturing evolution, and it's what makes the difference in the final product.
Product Management & Planning:
Japanese: Innovation over time, dependability engineered and tested, vertical integration, very long product horizons require forecasting their market's future needs.
Chinese: Fast development, copy what you can, feature-rich, low cost of goods, low focus on materials and dependability, reduce time to market by partnering and copying.
Production:
Japanese: High focus on quality and innovation in build procedures, and materials.
Chinese: Maximize production volumes, constant reduction in material, parts and build cost. Less focus on quality engineering.
Sales and Marketing:
Japan: Invest and develop sales, parts and service networks that are close to the it users. Research markets, collect feedback end users and distribution networks to drive improvements and future products.
China: Sell through arms-length traders and dealers, with little to no investment into support networks. As a result, they are somewhat disconnected from end users for feedback, and the delivery of new goods, parts, and after-sales service is abysmal at best.
The difference in philosophies is why China tends to fall behind Japan in quality. It's not that they can't match them, it's that they prioritize volume and low cost over dependability and build quality.
That's not just cars, anyone who uses Chinese suppliers for parts or finished items has experienced quality reduction over time. Chinese manufacturers look for cost savings in materials and labor relentlessly -- that's why they have trouble shaking their reputation as makers of cheap stuff.
It's not going to change quickly.
Relax
Well-known member
Then just buy a new one in Buffalo.
Relax
Well-known member
FoxConn might disagree. They seem to be able to manufacture for their customers to the expected quality level.
That's my first hand experience as well.
I worked for a Canadian company that does all the design etc. here and has their product manufactured by partner factories in China, including molds for the injection molding.
QC got to a point where the Canadian head office were demanding multiple finished product pre-delivery samples for testing and inspection. Unfortunately the issues continue to this day, because the factory is apparently building the samples to a much higher standard than the rest of the production, according to the Canadian based warranty & repair department.
At the same time, a Honda etc. built in China is likely to be of consistent quality, and CF Moto has been selling completed bikes in Europe for a while. The ones I saw in Portugal appeared comparable to Japanese and Euro products.
guzzirider
Well-known member
When I was in my 20s I always bought the best tool I could afford beause wanted it to last a lifetime.
50 years later the life expectancy of a tool is less important as long as it outlasts me.
50 years later the life expectancy of a tool is less important as long as it outlasts me.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think that was more about the prejudice and type of goods Japan was permitted to manufacture post war.
Japan's modern factories were destroyed in the war. Post-war restrictions on materials, and rebuilding relegated their factories to making stamped toys, pottery, and other dime store consumer items. There were also strong anti-Jap sentiments that stigmafied 'junk' with Japan.
By 1960, 15 years after the war, auto and MC makers around the world saw Japan in their rearview mirrors. Mid-70s saw every Western European MC maker fall to Japan -- the only survivors were propped up by their gov'ts. HD was doomed by the early 80's until the US gov't saved them too.
China is about 35 years into it's economic revival. They are certainly big, but nowhere close to having built a broad reputation for quality products that JApan managed to do in 15 years. They are closing the gap on their ability to make quality items, but not on the other parts - sales, service and market support - those are essential to delivering quality solutions.
guzzirider
Well-known member
I am now thinking of the Venom x22R MAX 250cc but only if they include the wooden block
to keep it from falling over!
to keep it from falling over!
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