E bikes rampaging Toronto streets

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we have an actual 'ebike gang' in our nieghbourhood now, about a dozen get together every evening , look to be 14-17yr olds on motocross bike styled rides . Talented wheelies and spins , I paced one doing better than 75kms ( in a 50 lol) . They look like they are having tons of fun, I fear the day is coming they will Tbone a 200k Benz. Will be a sad day for both,
 
adri said:
Who were paying for all the mini bikes those kids and teenagers were riding in the 60s and 70s?
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I can't say for everyone else but anyone I knew... Either the teen bought an old clapped out minibike with their money that got ridden on the streets and trails or the parents did buy them a proper MX but took the kid and the bike to proper off-road trails and they rode together with them on their MX.

The parents were smart enough to know that those bikes back then were not street legal. With these e-MX bikes I am not sure the parents are all that bright to know the difference between them and a proper e-bike.... Tort law may teach them a hard lesson.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I can't say for everyone else but anyone I knew... Either the teen bought an old clapped out minibike with their money that got ridden on the streets and trails or the parents did buy them a proper MX but took the kid and the bike to proper off-road trails and they rode together with them on their MX.

The parents were smart enough to know that those bikes back then were not street legal. With these e-MX bikes I am not sure the parents are all that bright to know the difference between them and a proper e-bike.... Tort law may teach them a hard lesson.
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My bil lives in Woodbridge. The parents that are entitled aholes that believe the hta doesn't apply to them get bikes/scooters for their entitled ahole kids. One dad rides a Chinese gas pit bike with his small son on his lap along the sidewalk daily at 50+ km/h with no helmets. No brain to need protection.
 
Recently, I've noticed two of these driving on sidewalks in Aurora, mostly in the neighborhoods east of Bayview. It's electric, but is it still considered a scooter? Looks more like a mini car to me. What law says about these I wander..

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Sochi said:
Recently, I've noticed two of these driving on sidewalks in Aurora, mostly in the neighborhoods east of Bayview. It's electric, but is it still considered a scooter? Looks more like a mini car to me. What law says about these I wander..

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Those are a grey area. By almost every definition you can find, they are Low Speed Vehicles which are technically part of a pilot project but almost no municipalities are participating in the project. The people using them are arguing they are enclosed mobility scooters and therefore a disability aid and they can do whatever the f they want. I call bs. Most of these are way faster and larger than mobility scooters.

The easy answer is ontario should clarify that enclosed mobility scooters are LSV's. Done. If you want to be on the sidewalk, no roof or speed for you.
 
Wingboy said:
Seen a few in KW. The driver is always elderly or mobility challenged. Good for them getting some independence.
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The ones I have seen were predominantly the DUI/trailer trash crowd. Pushing the youth/elderly off the sidewalk as they missile along. The same ebike stores telling their customers that the 1KW "ebike" can be used by anyone anywhere added these vehicles as they are a much higher price point and likely more profitable. As with the bikes, they tell customers they can do whatever they want in them.
 
Mad Mike said:
I had to buy my own. I got a crashed Rupp Roadster from SnoCity, worked cleaning up their yard when I was 12, the owners gave me a new crashed bike that I had to fix.

We would ride the Don River from Donn Mills to down town to hit the pinball alleys. Cops on horses couldn’t catch us.
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OG Rampaging on small two wheelers in Toronto

Wonder if OP would prefer this over ebikes
 
mimico_polak said:
We have a handful in our area that ride the scooters like idiots. Blowing through stop signs, passing all cars, and driving on the yellow line between both directions of traffic.

Hell I almost killed one when he made a wide turn and almost clipped me as he couldn’t pull it back in until the last second.

Almost saw 2 12 year olds get hit in a parking lot as they were ripping between parked cars into a travel lane.

Zero helmets. All laughs at their close calls.

I don’t think they understand the ramifications of potential injuries. But if they hit someone, it’ll be the cars fault of course.

Parents nowhere to be found.
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I have a few like this on those amazon gas pocket bikes, always with a loud pipe blasting, a couple on off road small cc dirt bikes. They're on eglinton every day and never get any attention from the cops.
 
GreyGhost said:
If you want to be on the sidewalk, no roof or speed for you.
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This is a great example of good people getting screwed over because of bad people.

I actually like these things. I've told the missus a hundred times I want to get her one. Her vision is good enough she can get around okay (blind in one eye, near sighted in the other), but not good enough she can get a driver's license until science advances a lot more.

We've gotten her 3 or 4 different ebikes now to try to find something she's comfortable getting around the city on with her disability. Really one of these things, with roof, would be perfect for her, but I think she's worried that there is a lot of stigma associated with them if you get out of one and you aren't 184 years old.

Like you pointed out, a lot of people assume if you're in one, it's because you got a DUI, and I think she's worried she'll be looked down as if she's an alcoholic because she's fit and in her early 40s. In reality she has never had a license and I wish she drank more because those are the funnest nights lol

For someone like her, taking the roof off wouldn't make her go any faster, or any slower, it would just make her more exposed to the elements and more vulnerable.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I can't say for everyone else but anyone I knew... Either the teen bought an old clapped out minibike with their money that got ridden on the streets and trails or the parents did buy them a proper MX but took the kid and the bike to proper off-road trails and they rode together with them on their MX.

The parents were smart enough to know that those bikes back then were not street legal. With these e-MX bikes I am not sure the parents are all that bright to know the difference between them and a proper e-bike.... Tort law may teach them a hard lesson.
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Most of these websites now, you don't have to pay in full to buy the item, you can sign up for a payment plan right from the check out cart, so they become affordable to even the teenager working part time at the local pool.

As a teenager who bought his own first scooter, with my parents not knowing until it they came home one day and there was a bike in the driveway, I think people need to give rebellious teenagers (and the loan shark capitalists who enable them) a lot more credit.
 
adri said:
This is a great example of good people getting screwed over because of bad people.

I actually like these things. I've told the missus a hundred times I want to get her one. Her vision is good enough she can get around okay (blind in one eye, near sighted in the other), but not good enough she can get a driver's license until science advances a lot more.

We've gotten her 3 or 4 different ebikes now to try to find something she's comfortable getting around the city on with her disability. Really one of these things, with roof, would be perfect for her, but I think she's worried that there is a lot of stigma associated with them if you get out of one and you aren't 184 years old.

Like you pointed out, a lot of people assume if you're in one, it's because you got a DUI, and I think she's worried she'll be looked down as if she's an alcoholic because she's fit and in her early 40s. In reality she has never had a license and I wish she drank more because those are the funnest nights lol

For someone like her, taking the roof off wouldn't make her go any faster, or any slower, it would just make her more exposed to the elements and more vulnerable.
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I really like a lot of these mobility solutions but sadly the politicians that lay out the laws are swayed by incompetence or industry lobbying. Reality and safety of the majority is barely a breath of wind in a hurricane. That leaves the streets littered with morons incapable of making smart decisions for themselves (and their children).

Sadly, lsv vehicle program is up to 50 km/h and full G required so it is useless for your wife.
 
Wingboy said:
Seen a few in KW. The driver is always elderly or mobility challenged. Good for them getting some independence.
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I saw them in Goderich at least 15 years ago. I was surprised I never saw them here around the city. And of course it was always the elderly using them.
 
GreyGhost said:
Those are a grey area. By almost every definition you can find, they are Low Speed Vehicles which are technically part of a pilot project but almost no municipalities are participating in the project. The people using them are arguing they are enclosed mobility scooters and therefore a disability aid and they can do whatever the f they want. I call bs. Most of these are way faster and larger than mobility scooters.

The easy answer is ontario should clarify that enclosed mobility scooters are LSV's. Done. If you want to be on the sidewalk, no roof or speed for you.
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First we've got to license everything with a motor.

That includes the four-year-old driving their mini plastic Jeep / BMW on the sidewalk. Keep them on the driveway or in your backyard. It also keeps them from driving onto the street. Kids don't think in the long term.

Years back around Barrie a kid took his toy for a winter night ride without anyone knowing. If it wasn't for a random dog he could have died of exposure.

If you qualify for handicap plates for your car your scooter license is free but you also need an operator's card like the one used for boaters. The operator's card must be backed up by government I.D. People with dementia drive these things so a doctor makes the call.

We've got to stop eroding the English language. You don't lose your license for DUI. You are suspended from operating and motorized vehicle.

I accept that alcoholism is a disease. So is rabies and victims aren't allowed to run free, endangering the general population.

I've talked to two LSV drivers and they are clueless about the pilot program needing municipal approval. Only two communities along the Huron shore have signed up. People read what they want to hear.

BTW these things cost $10K plus. The seller isn't mandated to tell the buyer about the restrictions, municipal approvals, DUI not allowed etc.

Insurance and diver licensing requirement: Give me a LSV and let me ram into a politician. If they walk away unscathed, we discuss minimums.
 
FWIW, Richmond Hill has a pretty comprehensive and easy to understand table that lists most forms of micro-mobility and where you are allowed to use them. Conspicuously absent are enclosed mobility scooters (unless they are lumped in with LSV). Given the confusion (both intentional and unintentional), I think they should have put them in the table with clear expectations.

Conceivably they may be Urban Mobility Vehicles but that project is basically a failure to launch and the proposal required drivers licenses so that doesn't fit with how EMS's are used either.

www.richmondhill.ca

Micromobility

Learn about Micromobility, vehicle types and what is permitted within Richmond Hill.
www.richmondhill.ca www.richmondhill.ca

 
adri said:
Most of these websites now, you don't have to pay in full to buy the item, you can sign up for a payment plan right from the check out cart, so they become affordable to even the teenager working part time at the local pool.

As a teenager who bought his own first scooter, with my parents not knowing until it they came home one day and there was a bike in the driveway, I think people need to give rebellious teenagers (and the loan shark capitalists who enable them) a lot more credit.
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That is pretty messed up, these sites are giving credit to minors without an adult? The nonsense in this industry gets worse everyday.
 
backmarkerducati said:
That is pretty messed up, these sites are giving credit to minors without an adult? The nonsense in this industry gets worse everyday.
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Good point. You probably have to be 18, as you can get a credit card at 18, so still a teenager, but maybe not a "kid" kid.
 
IMG_3789.jpegHad one of these brush by my elbow on a pedestrian bridge. Scared the beejeebers out of me.
 
Had what appeared to be a husband and wife team go around me while I was trying to back into a parking space at the grocery store this evening. Both were on the 4 wheel style and moved at quite a clip. The wife went behind me and the husband in front. He was riding side saddle because he had a case of beer on the floor where his feet should be.
 
xrljoel said:
Had what appeared to be a husband and wife team go around me while I was trying to back into a parking space at the grocery store this evening. Both were on the 4 wheel style and moved at quite a clip. The wife went behind me and the husband in front. He was riding side saddle because he had a case of beer on the floor where his feet should be.
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Hi five.
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