Drive w/ Handheld Device

Can this charge be negotiated down to something less punitive?

Got one on December 23, 2023 and it's coming up in September after many delays. Wondering if I can delay it further? It was an absolute stakeout by cops posing as construction workers at a huge intersection (Lakeshore & Leslie) and I was 10 cars back.

PaisaMed said:

Can this charge be negotiated down to something less punitive?

Got one on December 23, 2023 and it's coming up in September after many delays. Wondering if I can delay it further? It was an absolute stakeout by cops posing as construction workers at a huge intersection (Lakeshore & Leslie) and I was 10 cars back.

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If you delay it, you can't use the delay to apply for 11B. Crown needs to be responsible for 18+ months delay to win that way. Read up on 11b and R v Jordan and that's probably the path you want to take (assuming that you haven't been responsible for delays up to this point). Very very good chance that if you follow the process, the JP kills the ticket entirely.

yeah unfortunately, the previous delays were of my doing

PaisaMed said:

yeah unfortunately, the previous delays were of my doing

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OK. That changes things then. I have no idea how much flexibility the prosecution is using in these charges. If you have time, you can sit in court on a random day. There are probably a crap-ton of mobile device charges that come up and you can see how the prosecution handles them and what strategies people try to use to beat them. Most self-represented defendants are bleeping terrible and often end up cementing their convictions by saying the wrong thing.

I haven't looked at wording of the current law. Some jurisdictions had "holding and using" or exemptions for pressing a single button to answer a call. Those may give you something to grab on to. You can try to get the cop to slip up on the stand with their recollection/notes. Odds go up if the sting had a handoff with no pictures where construction cop A sees you and tells you to go to cop B and get a ticket. More opportunities for their documentation to have an issue then.

Look through the HTA and see what other laws might apply. I sure as hell wouldn't want to advocate to change it to careless although that may be an option.

Home - Charged Legal Services - It might be worth a call a least

Request disclosure. Then make sure it says that your were observed actually holding the device as opposed to touching the screen while it was solidly mounted to your dash. But if it does, then your best hope is that the office doesn't show at trial. Yes, I know officers are held more accountable these days, but they can still be double-booked for a different/more serious offense. That's how I got off on my last one.

On a related note, I was only able to find mention of solidly mounted phones being legal to operate in Vancouver while driving, but not in Ontario. Does anyone know if the law is any different here? Reason I ask is that Apple Car Play/Android Auto on a built-in screen on your dash is no different than having your phone mounted in the same place, so why would one be legal to operate, and one be illegal?

Relax said:

Request disclosure. Then make sure it says that your were observed actually holding the device as opposed to touching the screen while it was solidly mounted to your dash. But if it does, then your best hope is that the office doesn't show at trial. Yes, I know officers are held more accountable these days, but they can still be double-booked for a different/more serious offense. That's how I got off on my last one.

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Officer can be sick (or on paid leave) too. A friend got off because the officer retired right after issuing the ticket. Anyone that challenged the last six months of tickets he wrote won.

Relax said:

On a related note, I was only able to find mention of solidly mounted phones being legal to operate in Vancouver while driving, but not in Ontario. Does anyone know if the law is any different here? Reason I ask is that Apple Car Play/Android Auto on a built-in screen on your dash is no different than having your phone mounted in the same place, so why would one be legal to operate, and one be illegal?

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Don't try to inject logic into political whims. You will hurt your brain. Decades ago I rented a ford with 17 buttons on the steering wheel and two screens. That's all legal as the manufacturer put it in. Touch a phone and you get a lynching. Stupid.

I think the section of the law you are interested in for handheld devices being secured here is related to one touch to answer. All of the built in stuff (and probably devices like aftermarket android screens) are covered by exemptions.


"14. (1) A person may drive a motor vehicle on a highway while pressing a button on a hand-held wireless communication device to make, answer or end a cell phone call or to transmit or receive voice communication on a two-way radio if the device is placed securely in or mounted to the motor vehicle so that it does not move while the vehicle is in motion and the driver can see it at a quick glance and easily reach it without adjusting his or her driving position."

Exempt devices

7. The display screens of the following devices may be visible to any driver in a motor vehicle driven on a highway:

1. A device that displays,

i. information on the conditions, use and immediate environment of the vehicle, or

ii. information on road or weather conditions.

2. An ignition interlock device.

3. A car audio control that displays only text or static images.

4. A hand-held device that displays only text or static images and is connected directly into and operates using the audio system controls of the motor vehicle.