The Official Election Thread | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

The Official Election Thread

Socialism, where wealth is redistributed to assist those less fortunate is the opposit of libertarianism. Libertarianism is the belief that everyone is solely responsible for their own fortune or misfortune.

Thats the the fallacy that libertarianism is built on: that ones success is based solely on how hard one is willing to work. IMO, a very significant proportion of success in life is based on blind luck, especially with regard to the family one is born into.

Let's use the US, simply because the examples will be easy to understand: Do you really believe that a newborn baby, upon first opening his eyes and seeing an impoverished black family living in Alabama, has the same likelihood of success in life, as a white male born to an oil tycoon in Texas, or to a well connected political family in Connecticut? You have to admit that while not an absolute determination, the blind luck of birth circumstance will play a significant role in ones success in life. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the work ethic or other merits of a person.

Libertarians are content to say: I'm doing just fine, so the rest of you can just F off. Socialism is a system that assists those less fortunate, who may be destitute through no fault or character defect of their own. That's the type of society that I wish to live in, and it's the type of society that Harper is moving Canada away from. Under Harper's stewardship, Canada's rich have become richer, the middle class has shrunk, and the poor have become poorer. I don't wish Canada to become a mini southern state.
 
...or lack thereof.

Edit: That was supposed to quote post #52
 
Last edited:
@Schneller, I have never really given socialism much thought, but how does one avoid the leeches of the system? And is this a give a man a fish scenario, or one of a teach the man to fish?
 
I agree with socialism towards people with integrity who make an effort to help themselves. If you're blastin caps and making a mess of your 'hood why should I support you? Also, I don't see colour.

edit: lol, I just got a call from an east Indian lady @ Steven Harpers HQ asking if I will be supporting the Conservatives. I gulped and said yes. Of course I have no intentions to support Steven Harper. That was a rush, politics is exciting. It got a little awkward when I declined a lawn sign.
 
Last edited:
Sometimes people act anti-social because they feel society has abandoned them. (USA)

There is far less destructive anti-social behavior in countries with governments who look after their citizens, like Denmark/Norway/Finland/Sweden/Holland.

And there are some innately bad people in every country.
 
Schneller said:
Socialism, where wealth is redistributed to assist those less fortunate is the opposit of libertarianism. Libertarianism is the belief that everyone is solely responsible for their own fortune or misfortune.

Thats the the fallacy that libertarianism is built on: that ones success is based solely on how hard one is willing to work. IMO, a very significant proportion of success in life is based on blind luck, especially with regard to the family one is born into.

Let's use the US, simply because the examples will be easy to understand: Do you really believe that a newborn baby, upon first opening his eyes and seeing an impoverished black family living in Alabama, has the same likelihood of success in life, as a white male born to an oil tycoon in Texas, or to a well connected political family in Connecticut? You have to admit that while not an absolute determination, the blind luck of birth circumstance will play a significant role in ones success in life. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the work ethic or other merits of a person.

Libertarians are content to say: I'm doing just fine, so the rest of you can just F off. Socialism is a system that assists those less fortunate, who may be destitute through no fault or character defect of their own. That's the type of society that I wish to live in, and it's the type of society that Harper is moving Canada away from. Under Harper's stewardship, Canada's rich have become richer, the middle class has shrunk, and the poor have become poorer. I don't wish Canada to become a mini southern state.
Click to expand...

I don't often agree with what you write but I do this time.

I won't be living in Canada much longer and the main reasons are what you just wrote. I'm tired of living in a country with a govt that doesn't give a **** about us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Schneller said:
Sometimes people act anti-social because they feel society has abandoned them. (USA)
Click to expand...

It's true. A lot of times society has abandoned them, and right from the get go too. It's unfortunate. But let's not discount natural human behaviour.
 
Schneller said:
Socialism, where wealth is redistributed to assist those less fortunate is the opposit of libertarianism. Libertarianism is the belief that everyone is solely responsible for their own fortune or misfortune.

Thats the the fallacy that libertarianism is built on: that ones success is based solely on how hard one is willing to work. IMO, a very significant proportion of success in life is based on blind luck, especially with regard to the family one is born into.

Let's use the US, simply because the examples will be easy to understand: Do you really believe that a newborn baby, upon first opening his eyes and seeing an impoverished black family living in Alabama, has the same likelihood of success in life, as a white male born to an oil tycoon in Texas, or to a well connected political family in Connecticut? You have to admit that while not an absolute determination, the blind luck of birth circumstance will play a significant role in ones success in life. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the work ethic or other merits of a person.

Libertarians are content to say: I'm doing just fine, so the rest of you can just F off. Socialism is a system that assists those less fortunate, who may be destitute through no fault or character defect of their own. That's the type of society that I wish to live in, and it's the type of society that Harper is moving Canada away from. Under Harper's stewardship, Canada's rich have become richer, the middle class has shrunk, and the poor have become poorer. I don't wish Canada to become a mini southern state.
Click to expand...

Ah, the utopian socialist perspective. Somehow the rich guys are bad and the poor folk just got thrown a bad lot and so better punish the rich and give cell phones to all of the poor.......

So what exactly and specifically have you done in your life today to make those that are way less fortunate than you better off? Shouldn't socialism extend beyond borders? How about a worldwide socialist state?

PS: how's it possible under the Great Obama that "mini southern states" have become such? Isn't he all about hope and change and equality for everyone?
 
caboose56 said:
I don't often agree with what you write but I do this time.

I won't be living in Canada much longer and the main reasons are what you just wrote. I'm tired of living in a country with a govt that doesn't give a **** about us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What about a province that doesn't give a crap either?

PS: where are you moving to?
 
caboose56 said:
I don't often agree with what you write but I do this time.

I won't be living in Canada much longer and the main reasons are what you just wrote. I'm tired of living in a country with a govt that doesn't give a **** about us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What utopia will you be moving to?
 
Snobike Mike said:
Ah, the utopian socialist perspective. Somehow the rich guys are bad and the poor folk just got thrown a bad lot and so better punish the rich and give cell phones to all of the poor.......
Click to expand...

Did you type this while sitting in a donut shop? Yes, some rich guys are bad. It's a fact.
 
I'm going to vote for the best looking guy. Might as well have a sexy leader.
 
Red_Liner740 said:
Interesting. So tell me how you feel Cons handled the 2008 recession. Id say we fared extremely well during the last 7 years because we had Cons in power. why are you letting NDP scate due to being in power during recession while showing zero praise for how the governement handles whats is now considered the worst recession since the 1929 stock market crash?
Click to expand...
The reason we weathered the 2008 recession very well was because Canada has some of the strictest banking regulations in the world.

In the U.S, the major banks made risky trades with the people's money; when they lost, the government bailed them out because they're too big to fail.

Canadian Cons are de-regulating Canadian banks, making us more vulnerable.
 
Snobike Mike said:
Ah, the utopian socialist perspective. Somehow the rich guys are bad and the poor folk just got thrown a bad lot and so better punish the rich and give cell phones to all of the poor.......

So what exactly and specifically have you done in your life today to make those that are way less fortunate than you better off? Shouldn't socialism extend beyond borders? How about a worldwide socialist state?

PS: how's it possible under the Great Obama that "mini southern states" have become such? Isn't he all about hope and change and equality for everyone?
Click to expand...

Those mini southern states, the poorest states in America, have conservative governors!

in fact, the only conservative state not at the top of the list of the poorest states, is North Dakota, due solely to the destruction of the environment including the pollution of ground drinking water, through the rape of the land of natural resources in the form of fracking for oil.
 
Last edited:
Snobike Mike said:
What about a province that doesn't give a crap either?

PS: where are you moving to?
Click to expand...

killerkeith said:
What utopia will you be moving to?
Click to expand...

My employer's head office is in Norway. It won't be hard for me to get a job there.

After getting to know quite a few Norwegians through work and visiting the county it makes Canada (or Ontario specifically) look like a ********.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Snobike Mike said:
What about a province that doesn't give a crap either?

PS: where are you moving to?
Click to expand...

If I were young, and if Harper gets re-elected and continues to move Canada closer to the conservative US model, I would pursue moving to a Scandinavian country with its more socialist government.

Ontario does give a crap. That's what the proposed provincial pension plan is all about. At present, too many of Ontario's elderly are living in poverty because they were either short sighted and did not save for retirement, or were in circumstances which did not permit them to financially save for their retirement. And the situation is getting worse with the shrinking of the middle class.
 
Last edited:
Red_Liner740 said:
Interesting. So tell me how you feel Cons handled the 2008 recession. Id say we fared extremely well during the last 7 years because we had Cons in power. why are you letting NDP scate due to being in power during recession while showing zero praise for how the governement handles whats is now considered the worst recession since the 1929 stock market crash?
Click to expand...
The cons inherited a number of policies from the liberals before them. Despite the cons claims of running the country well they've run up the debt to record levels and there's nothing that benefits the people to show for it.
 
Schneller said:
If I were young, and if Harper gets re-elected and continues to move Canada closer to the conservative US model, I would pursue moving to a Scandinavian country with its more socialist government.

Ontario does give a crap. That's what the proposed provincial pension plan is all about. At present, too many of Ontario's elderly are living in poverty because they were either short sighted and did not save for retirement, or were in circumstances which did not permit them to financially save for their retirement. And the situation is getting worse with the shrinking of the middle class.
Click to expand...

In Bold: Ya don't say.........

You'd probably fit in well in Greece come to think of it........
 
Snobike Mike said:
In Bold: Ya don't say.........

You'd probably fit in well in Greece come to think of it........
Click to expand...

So your solution is let them rot? What if they were your parents? They are someone's parents.

"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members"

Pope John Paul ll

And

It was once said that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
Hubert H. Humphrey, the Democratic presidential candidate who was defeated by republican "I am not a crook" Nixon.

 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom