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SIU investigation of motorcycle running from cops..
- Thread starter kiwi
- Start date
I love the logic when someone, (not just you sir), begin a statement with no offence to..... BUT...lol.
So which way do we want it? Many have posted how cops have no discretion and shouldn't then others post they should use more discretion. Some post cops are all ignorant pigs who are just power tripping, while some seem to imply they can do no wrong, (which of course is a silly premise, they ARE human).
I guess those who have never had an issue, generally go through life, doing what is "generally acceptable" to society, (that isn't to say they abide by every law all the time), and if they do encounter an officer they tend to go into the interaction treating the officer inthe manner they are expecting to be treated. Does this mean there aren't cops who don't overstep? Of course not again they are human. But in today's society with cell cameras everywhere these folks tend not to last very long.
Then those who seem to have "bad experiences" with EVERY cop they have ever dealt with. Of course the first question that leaps forward is why are you dealing so often with cops to start with? MOST people go thru life never having dealt with an officer. Then the next question is if EVERY encounter is bad then are all cops bad? (which logic tells us can't be the case otherwise, no one would report a positive experience). So if 100 people walk into 10 rooms and 99 NEVER have a negative experience, but the last one has a negative experience in EVERY room then where is it logical to draw the problem lies?? I guess it could be that the other 99 are just polite sheeple who ALWAYS do what they are asked, and shrink at the mere sight of others...lol
So which way do we want it? Many have posted how cops have no discretion and shouldn't then others post they should use more discretion. Some post cops are all ignorant pigs who are just power tripping, while some seem to imply they can do no wrong, (which of course is a silly premise, they ARE human).
I guess those who have never had an issue, generally go through life, doing what is "generally acceptable" to society, (that isn't to say they abide by every law all the time), and if they do encounter an officer they tend to go into the interaction treating the officer inthe manner they are expecting to be treated. Does this mean there aren't cops who don't overstep? Of course not again they are human. But in today's society with cell cameras everywhere these folks tend not to last very long.
Then those who seem to have "bad experiences" with EVERY cop they have ever dealt with. Of course the first question that leaps forward is why are you dealing so often with cops to start with? MOST people go thru life never having dealt with an officer. Then the next question is if EVERY encounter is bad then are all cops bad? (which logic tells us can't be the case otherwise, no one would report a positive experience). So if 100 people walk into 10 rooms and 99 NEVER have a negative experience, but the last one has a negative experience in EVERY room then where is it logical to draw the problem lies?? I guess it could be that the other 99 are just polite sheeple who ALWAYS do what they are asked, and shrink at the mere sight of others...lol
油井緋色;2320862 said:
There's a video, somewhere in Europe, with a cop telling a bunch of bikes to line up and then giving them a "start" signal similar to street racing lol
But this goes back to emotional intelligence. We only do things because we want to. A cop can, as the article states, be composed, and respectful. The teens will listen because he appears compassionate, empathetic, and nice. Because the teens don't want to piss off a pleasant person (who does?), they will want to do as he says.
Flip the other side, threaten the most important thing to every human, their life, well-being or health, and they will do what you want them to do. They will also harbor resentment and may stab you in the back when possible.
One thing I'm not sure of is which enforcement type, guardian versus warrior, is more prone to mental break downs.
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Typo fixed lol
To be honest, I don't know. I merely stated what I wrote because it makes sense. Cops have to follow orders right? Would higher ups want an unreliable asset when orders are issued? I sure as hell wouldn't...that'd be like having a computer refuse to start when you tell it to because it knows you're going to watch fetish porn and it thinks that's wrong.
Riceburner
Well-known member
interesting. I've had encounters with police from both personality types. As subject of a failed robbery when I was a kid and the subject of traffic stops etc. as an adult. I even know a few cops from both sides of the border. Lets just say my overall opinion is just over one side of the fence.
A good officer, should be prepared to listen and follow orders, (as long as those orders are lawful), look at the current case of the TPS command officer who is in the middle of a disciplinary hearing as it was he who ordered the "kettling" if people during the G20. His lawyer says he was told by higher ups to "take back the streets" he then issued his orders to the front line troops. Now I have no idea what an order of "take back the streets" encompasses. In hindsight he should have likely sought clarification. He issued the orders he did. It was to say the least a volatile and fluid situation. But he IS being held to account for his actions.
Todays officers, MUST have at the minimum a BA to even be considered, some have substainitally more education. In the 1970's the "average" education level of a front line officer was believe it or not grade 8!!! Back then the option was to hire big burly tough guys who could easily "duke it out" with anyone they came across. Don't forget officers for the most part had only their sidearm and their hands, Flashlights and batons really didn't come into play until the early 80's.
Now did "some" people get a "beat down" back then sure they did, BUT cops also almost always knew who the "troublemakers" were in town. It is likley in today's fast paced society, the local copper "may" know of 1 or 2 "known" to police people. We also tended not to hear of the "beat downs", as there was no social media no internet, no cell phones. Also I think people weren't as self absorbed and self entitled as they are today. It seems like there was an :understanding" back then if you were a bad *** and played it that way with cops then you were in for it, and they "accpepted it" and went on their way, (many times believing they got what they deserved). I don't ever think it is acceptable for an officer to strike, manhandle or otherwise assault a citizen, unless it is required to subdue or defend the officer or others from harm.
So yes there are bad cops, I would be the last to say there aren't I have seen and worked with some. But there are also bad citizens...lol Police should be held to a higher account for their actions but they are still humans with all the "defects" we all have.
But we have gotten sooo far off the topic here it is doubtful we can get back to the truly tragic event which is a 34 year old man is dead and none of us know why or if it was preventable or how or if things could have been done differently.
Todays officers, MUST have at the minimum a BA to even be considered, some have substainitally more education. In the 1970's the "average" education level of a front line officer was believe it or not grade 8!!! Back then the option was to hire big burly tough guys who could easily "duke it out" with anyone they came across. Don't forget officers for the most part had only their sidearm and their hands, Flashlights and batons really didn't come into play until the early 80's.
Now did "some" people get a "beat down" back then sure they did, BUT cops also almost always knew who the "troublemakers" were in town. It is likley in today's fast paced society, the local copper "may" know of 1 or 2 "known" to police people. We also tended not to hear of the "beat downs", as there was no social media no internet, no cell phones. Also I think people weren't as self absorbed and self entitled as they are today. It seems like there was an :understanding" back then if you were a bad *** and played it that way with cops then you were in for it, and they "accpepted it" and went on their way, (many times believing they got what they deserved). I don't ever think it is acceptable for an officer to strike, manhandle or otherwise assault a citizen, unless it is required to subdue or defend the officer or others from harm.
So yes there are bad cops, I would be the last to say there aren't I have seen and worked with some. But there are also bad citizens...lol Police should be held to a higher account for their actions but they are still humans with all the "defects" we all have.
But we have gotten sooo far off the topic here it is doubtful we can get back to the truly tragic event which is a 34 year old man is dead and none of us know why or if it was preventable or how or if things could have been done differently.
There were always the stories about the old Metro Holdup Squad. The song "Cherry Beach Express" comes from a well known practice in Toronto, from years back. Anyone with a brain knew that you didn't piss off a Kitchener/Waterloo cop after dark, if you were a teenager. The local stuff was well known. What we didn't hear about, but do now, were abuses in distant places.
The simple answer, to this issue, is don't run if you don't want to be chased. Is your life worth it?
The simple answer, to this issue, is don't run if you don't want to be chased. Is your life worth it?
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The simple answer, to this issue, is don't run if you don't want to be chased. Is your life worth it?
+1000.
I know some people make it sound like every interaction is an auotmatic s172 but in reality, there are province wide, likely 100's of bikes stopped daily and I would assume the VAST VAST majority seem to end without a s172.
+1000.
I know some people make it sound like every interaction is an auotmatic s172 but in reality, there are province wide, likely 100's of bikes stopped daily and I would assume the VAST VAST majority seem to end without a s172.
I pulled onto a busy hwy at rush hour. Opened the throttle to get up to merge speed the front lifted about 4 inches, well there was a cop parked that I didn't notice because I was looking to merge.lit me up I pulled over she cut right in front of me and jumped out of her car blocking 2 lanes of the hwy and started yelling about how she was going to impound my bike blah blah. Luckily a cop buddy showed up 5 min later got a $125 fine. 172 is a load of sh..
I agree have said countless times s172 is not a good law. But I question why the need to lift the front, (if even only 4 inches), to get to "merge speed", especially at rush hour, (normally at rush hour traffic isn't even coming close to 100 km/h. How do toyotas and echos, and smart cars do it without needing that much throttle. But in the end it was as I pointed out the vast majority of stops do not result in a s172. The copper can threaten the ticket all they want, (especially seeing that you did indeed contravene one of the sections), but it wasn't issued in the end. so therefore, had you done as was suggested previously in this thread used that as an "excuse" to run, it wouldn't have worked out as well. You did the correct thing, you got lit up you stopped. I assume you were polite and respectful, and walked away with the appropriate ticket. This just proves the counter point that just because you get lit up, (and I suspect you knew you were into 172 territory), you run because you "might" get a s172 charge.
Riceburner
Well-known member
My bike has the ability to get up to 160 by the end of a on ramp merge without lifting the front.
Roomie
Banned
It's not just your life that's in jeopardy. These wannabe Rossi types don't comprehend that they can cause everything from damage to loss of others lives due to their poor decision making skills. Why should others have to suffer because you're entitled ass says **** the police and runs when you shouldn't be doing something to warrant running in the first place. Children trapped in grown up bodies is why. Life isn't grand theft auto
Same here. Quite easily. :dontknow:
Traffic on the 401 where I am is flowing at 130 -140 even during rush hour. Its a very short on ramp, did I need to lift the front? No of course not, did it put anyone in danger no. Is it fun yes. Before 172 I would have just got the $125 fine without all the fanfare that's all. I'm not trying to justify my actions, just saying its a little over the top.
redridernl
Well-known member
Did you or anyone else turn in the bad cops? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. That's a big part of the problem.
boyoboy
Well-known member
you have said that a potential cop has to have a "MINIMUM" education of a BA to be considered? minimum? baloney! so most cops getting hired must have a Phd now? Where do you get your information? i do not believe you. i guess all the colleges teaching "police foundations" are not for potential cops? as these are not providing the "minimum". police corruption is rampant, and req'd, if you want to have a career in policing. its now that simple. the guy who crashed - he fu*ked up. not worth running - go to the track if you want to go fast. please do not stick up for the "educated" cops - they are as corrupt as every other officer. they are all corrupt, even if its only through their "silence".
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You might be surprised how many private security people are proud graduates of a Police Foundations course.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they did have a degree because there has been an inflation of degrees. BAs are probably the most common and a lot of unemployed undergraduates hold this specific degree
What I would find hard to believe is if a lot of cops hold engineering, math/computer, or science degrees as those degrees have higher failure/drop out rates and lead to stable careers (exception in science, but many science majors go straight to a masters/graduate program).
+1000000 A police officer's job is to uphold the law, this includes turning in the "bad" cops because if the "good" cops don't, then they become part of the "bad" group. Cops are the #1 abusers of human rights, the things the do to people while "in custody" are nothing short torture...
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