Send this to Private Pilot, he'd be interested.
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Return of Ford Nation
- Thread starter Baggsy
- Start date
Send this to Private Pilot, he'd be interested.
'Few Canadians realize how seriously these statutes infringe upon freedom of speech. The Ontario Human Rights Commission has stated, in the context of equivalent provisions in the Ontario Human Rights Code, that “refusing to refer to a trans person by their chosen name and a personal pronoun that matches their gender identity … will likely be discrimination when it takes place in a social area covered by the Code, including employment, housing and services like education.”'
Don't mess up, and please remember to use my proper name and pronoun when replying.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/bru...aw-to-use-reasonable-pronouns-like-ze-and-zer
Person 1: Hello, Sir. How are you?
Person 2: I prefer to be called Ma’am.
Person 1: Oh, I’m sorry. Hello, Ma’am. How are you?
Person 2: I’m well, yourself?
Person 1: I’m also well. Terrific.
I can see how that would be difficult for people who are ********.
J_F
Guest
Few Canadians realize how seriously these statutes infringe upon freedom of speech
maybe so few think this, because it does not interfere with free speech in any way
they are federal employees being given guidelines on how to avoid the use of gender specific pronouns
lets look at another example
a huge fat, 50 year old dude decides he wants his first bike
decides he's a Ducati sort of guy, a Panigale 1299 to be specific
excellent solution to a mid life crisis and distract him from the ED problem
so he goes to the dealer, finds one, and tries to sit on it
he's too fat and old to even get a leg over it
sales guy comes over and sees this sillyness
what he wants to say is:
"you dumb old fatass, go to the Harley Dealer"
but he doesn't say this
why?
has the dealer principle trampled on his free speech??
maybe so few think this, because it does not interfere with free speech in any way
they are federal employees being given guidelines on how to avoid the use of gender specific pronouns
lets look at another example
a huge fat, 50 year old dude decides he wants his first bike
decides he's a Ducati sort of guy, a Panigale 1299 to be specific
excellent solution to a mid life crisis and distract him from the ED problem
so he goes to the dealer, finds one, and tries to sit on it
he's too fat and old to even get a leg over it
sales guy comes over and sees this sillyness
what he wants to say is:
"you dumb old fatass, go to the Harley Dealer"
but he doesn't say this
why?
has the dealer principle trampled on his free speech??
Someone said exactly that almost two years ago already and he's doing fine. In fact he's doing speaking tours, selling books and collecting vast Patreon monies now far more than ever before, because he's making people afraid for their freedom of speech.
Oh the irony.
BTW, discrimination has been illegal for a long time, even when it's merely spoken. Why the sudden uproar now when it's applied to transgenders?
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JTR
Well-known member
Not difficult, nobody ever said it was. However this is the beginning of the erosion. The first law defining words that must be used, and we've already had quite enough of this ********.
Actually, defining what can and cannot be said, with force of law, is absolutely interference with free speech, how could it be seen as anything else? Oh, and no the ducati salesperson wants to make money, so if fatass is going to buy any overpriced unreliable ride, he'd rather it be Italian than american
Well, we're talking about something very different here. Dr. Peterson, was told that he MUST use imaginary made up words, to address people who can and will change those imaginary words as they please, on the fly. That is a breach of free speech, not discrimination. Discrimination, well that would be more akin to using a derogatory term to describe or exclude someone. For example Calling me "Cis" or "cisgender", a derogatory term created by the trans "community" to describe, exclude and attack normal people. I don't need a new made up word that I liken to N***er, thankyou. I have a word to describe me, that word is "Normal".
I've never cared about a person's color, their sex(aside from mating purposes ofcourse), sexuality(trans-sexuals included), their religion, or anything else aside from their behavior and attitude. I'm typically very friendly to anybody I meet or speak to, very outgoing, easygoing and even charitable. However, when pushed I push back, when attacked I return fire. As of late, my sex, gender, race and religion are all under heavy attack, and I've about ****in had it. Alot of people have had it. Discrimination of all kinds had died way down in the last few decades. Bit by bit, stereotype by stereotype, it was being washed away. There was even a slight overcompensation taking place(affirmative action; a rather insulting insinuation that people of a certain color or sex couldn't qualify or succeed on their own merits). But now, the sleeping giant is being poked, prodded, kicked and sometimes stabbed. It's waking up. Identity politics is becoming an identity war, it's just beginning and make no mistakes, it will get quite messy before it's over.
I started voting conservative because I learned the (rapidly diminishing)value of a dollar, and the detriment of debt. But if the left forces the identity politics agenda, I certainly won't shy away if any candidate of any party is interested in fighting it. I haven't heard or read of Ford to have given any stance on this topic, so I don't know why it's even being discussed in this thread(if it's not platform related maybe start a "change my mind" thread or something), but if he does come out against this crap then it will only strengthen my support. I'm actually more interested in seeing a budget that ends with a black bottom line rather than red, perhaps lower some of the debt principle so that we can pay less interest. Yeah it's scary to think of the cuts necessary, but it's cuts to many luxuries that shouldn't have been spent on before we had the money to do it. It's fun to load the credit card up with shiny stuff, but when paying the interest on that bill gets in the way of keeping the lights on, it's time to take things back and cut the card This all can culminate in getting the stuff back later when your savings can handle it.
BTW, from my understanding, which is limited to the dictionary definition, a populist is a good thing. When did it become a negative trait, to be "a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people"-Merriam-Webster ?
Now you're the one talking about something different. The rule about how to address callers is just like any other script that call centre reps anywhere are given. It's a workplace rule. A dumb one, like most of them, but not a law. You're talking about the guidance on interpreting the OHRC when it comes to pronouns. Also not a law, but if the guidance is ever applied in court you can bet a constitutional challenge will follow.Not difficult, nobody ever said it was. However this is the beginning of the erosion. The first law defining words that must be used, and we've already had quite enough of this ********.
Actually, defining what can and cannot be said, with force of law, is absolutely interference with free speech, how could it be seen as anything else? Oh, and no the ducati salesperson wants to make money, so if fatass is going to buy any overpriced unreliable ride, he'd rather it be Italian than american
No, he was not told he had to use any words. He was told he had to comply with the law including those against discrimination and harassment, and contrary to the crazy repeated lies, there is no law that compels speech. That was the lie that I was addressing in my reply.
Also what you described isn't discrimination, it's harassment if it's an ongoing thing. And calling you cis is neither of those, it's a technical term that means 'normal' but in respect to a very specific subject. Are right-handed people degraded by being called right-handed? Please.
I'm totally on board with your second paragraph. Affirmative action was only ever going to create problems, and the only way this problem was going to be fixed was by getting worse first. And it is getting worse, as you say. Now we have unconstitutional activist interpretation of important OHRC, a PM who's appointed cabinet ministers to perfectly reflect demographics, who specifies how civil servants must never use their judgement regarding gender, and who demands foreign nations apply his stupid activist agenda during trade talks! It's the reverse of the hateful SoCon mentality that's infested the right (which is how this topic ended up here). SoProgs I guess? As if they can force people to treat each other with respect through legislation, especially given how they see offense in every little disagreement.
The point is that there are real problems with the left, but raising the alarm about nonsense like compelled speech just detracts from those problems and discredits those who make such stupid claims. In fact it makes them look like bigots because it's hard to explain why all these righties are so upset about existing protections for race, gender, religion and so on being expanded to include protection for transgenders. I mean seriously, being labeled 'cisgender' is degrading to you? Get real.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Not quite right. There are times and terms that are considered derogatory based on the user and context. For instance, slang "yo Ni****" might be a friendly and acceptable gesture on a basketball court, not so much when a cop addresses some kid walking down the street.
Using your logic, one should not feel offended, harassed or degraded by being addressed with Hello Asian, Hello Jew, Hello CIS, Hello cripple -- as long is the reference is correct?
Actually it is. I don't need my current label redefined, I have been quite happy for the last 50+ years with out a special label.
I saw it more as like this:
Person 1: Hello, Sir. How are you?
Person 2: I ... to ... ca... M...
Person 1: Oh, I’m sorry. O didn't quite hear you Sir, what was that again?
Person 2: HOW DARE YOU INSULT ME BY NOT CALLING ME MISC! I'LL HAVE THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION ON YOU!!!
...
Months later
Person 1: We'll you see Ma'am, I was just ...
Person 3 <interrupting>: You ... address ... as ...
Person 1: Sorry Ma'am, I didn't quite hear you ...
Person 1: Hello, Sir. How are you?
Person 2: I ... to ... ca... M...
Person 1: Oh, I’m sorry. O didn't quite hear you Sir, what was that again?
Person 2: HOW DARE YOU INSULT ME BY NOT CALLING ME MISC! I'LL HAVE THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION ON YOU!!!
...
Months later
Person 1: We'll you see Ma'am, I was just ...
Person 3 <interrupting>: You ... address ... as ...
Person 1: Sorry Ma'am, I didn't quite hear you ...
Not sure how you got that from what I said. People can be offended or degraded about whatever they want, even if they're being snowflaky. The law allows us to offend and degrade ohers, as it should. It's only harassment if it's a repeated, ongoing thing. And even that's legal when it's not tied to the provision of any product or service, and that all fine and reasonable too. Then there's discrimination, which is a whole other thing.
I'd expect some people to be offended by those examples you gave (except cis, that's just dumb). So I avoid using them because I'm not into being offensive just for kicks. If I wanted to offend someone for some reason I'd toss those terms at them and hope they had a thin skin. It may be impetuous and childish to offend them, but it's legal. There's no law against it, as much as SoCons like to claim there is. End of story.
I don’t believe either of these scenarios is even remotely likely to occur.
I believe that only deep paranoia would lead someone to believe that either has likelihood of happening greater than “statistically insignificant”.
J_F
Guest
yeah, huge problem
public funding of religious schools is wrong
total secularism (separation of church and state and education) is the way
come to think of it, we had a secular public school system in Ontario
too bad the Cons were a bunch of weak-kneed snowflakes
and gave in to the Catholic lobby for full funding
it's so easy
there really isn't even any sport in it
defeater905
Well-known member
lol No. It's more like at a job interview:
Female Applicant: Hi, I'm Roger.
Employer: Okay?..Roger, It says Roger on your Resume and Lindsey on your application.
Applicant: Yes, I know. I'm Roger this week. -Oh, are you not familiar with gender fluidity? Well it means I can switch my gender...whenever I want! So by law you must refer to me as a man this week.
Employer: Thank you. Great interview. *throws resume in trash.*
It's an example of a law that's solely based on an ideology. It doesn't necessarily help the people it was designed to help, and in my silly example it doesn't at all. It could make LGBTQ types harder/more risky to employ. Imagine working in a union environment where you are forced to say awkward things.
This might be anecdotal, but I've noticed young teens nowadays are much more likely to be gay or bi, even changing genders. I think it's attributed to our education system and Kathleen Wynne ramped it right up in Ontario. The kids are going to be useless in society...
Liberals buying votes again. #FireWynne
I don't want to say that you are dumb or that this part of your post is dumb....
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I agree that funding of the Ontario Protestant and Catholic boards is unnecessary - we should only have one school system in the province.
But, your comment on PC funding needs a bit of a history lesson to frame it properly. The public system was historically Protestant, it did not finish it's transition to a full secular public system until late 80's. At that time Catholic school supporters had a portion of their school tax diverted to cover the cost of grade 11 and on. ,
With respect to funding grades 11&12, that was done by the Big Blue Machine at no cost to taxpayers. It simply re-routed catholic supported school taxes elections back to the Catholic system because this funding was never extended when high schools went from ending at grade 10 to ending at grade 13.
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