New riders: should we armour up?

[spray____]

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Re: Spinal protection/injuries

Pain is temporary and a lot of guys think it makes for a cool story and makes them sound tough.

The scarring is permanent, but again a lot of guys think it's a cool story and makes them seem tough.

Nerve damage is what people often forget about. How cool are you going to be when you loose partial or full control of one of your limbs for the rest of your life?

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Pain is not temporary. I will always have pain in my ankle and if I'm lucky my ankle surgery has delayed my arthritis for 20 years. If I'm unlucky I'll have arthritis this summer.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

My mother had a brutal story for me when I told her I was getting a motorcycle. She was a nurse in the ER and she had a squid come in that was in an accident. She said they got him on the table, knocked him out via anesthesia and she said they started scrubbing the gravel out with a wire brush. BRUTAL! That's not the worst part though. The worst part is, it was so painful the guy woke up, sat straight up and started screaming. If that's not enough to get you to put on some gear I dunno what is? That story sticks with me.

Depending on the severity sometime you have to scrub your self.

 

[Furpo]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

This is getting out of hand--can the OP just agree to wear proper gear already?

My mother had a brutal story for me when I told her I was getting a motorcycle. She was a nurse in the ER and she had a squid come in that was in an accident. She said they got him on the table, knocked him out via anesthesia and she said they started scrubbing the gravel out with a wire brush. BRUTAL! That's not the worst part though. The worst part is, it was so painful the guy woke up, sat straight up and started screaming. If that's not enough to get you to put on some gear I dunno what is? That story sticks with me.

 

[TSquared]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

This is getting out of hand--can the OP just agree to wear proper gear already?

Because other people join the conversation saying how they wear Canada goose for protection instead of proper gear because it looks weird walking around outside the bike.

 

[Blackfin]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

Not to mention the jokers derisively calling out "gear Nazis", making impressionable new riders think it's "uncool" to wear proper gear.

New riders need to hear the potential dark side of riding so they can properly assess their own level of risk acceptance. The more they hear the "real" stuff, the more likely they are to invest in good gear and wear it.

 

[marktwothousand]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

look guys,
I think It's clear everyone knows that the more gear you have, the better protected you will be from breakages, bruises, scrapes and so on...in ALL situations. Now, I'm no rider yet-- (4 more days togo!!) but it seems to me - that there are risk levels involved here. I don't think its reasonable to expect any rider - new or old - to be traversing 80+ KM/h speed roads for long periods with ONLY a helmet. On the other hand, if you have a 15 minute route along city streets to go see a friend on a clear Sunday summer afternoon in relatively slow stop and go traffic, it seems to me that your risk level of getting into a significant accident is a whole lot lower.

YES of course you can get blindsided by a car running a red light, rear ending you, etc. But the same can happen as a pedestrian, biker, etc. So are cyclists recommended to go out with full riding gear now and pedestrians walk around with helmets? Of course not.

But I think, and again, this is limited knowledge based on my thorough studying, reading the threads, etc, that the reality is, is if you have a high speed crash, a jacket and boots isn't going to do any more for your life than not having said jacket and boots. Let's be serious here...sad to say, and it sounds like some on here know someone who has experienced this...but life loss seems a huge possibility in this instance.

YES, you can get into an accident just pulling out of your driveway...but is it likely? No... And why wouldn't similar stats apply to the KIND of motorcycling you're into? Yes, some guys get into it to take the fastest roads, and most risky routes, but there are some of us out there who are content with just casual riding. if the risk of serious accidents is higher for the former rider, why is it reasonable to expect the casual rider will want to, or should, wear the same level of protection as the fast crazy rider?

 

[TSquared]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

look guys,
I think It's clear everyone knows that the more gear you have, the better protected you will be from breakages, bruises, scrapes and so on...in ALL situations. Now, I'm no rider yet-- (4 more days togo!!) but it seems to me - that there are risk levels involved here. I don't think its reasonable to expect any rider - new or old - to be traversing 80+ KM/h speed roads for long periods with ONLY a helmet. On the other hand, if you have a 15 minute route along city streets to go see a friend on a clear Sunday summer afternoon in relatively slow stop and go traffic, it seems to me that your risk level of getting into a significant accident is a whole lot lower.

YES of course you can get blindsided by a car running a red light, rear ending you, etc. But the same can happen as a pedestrian, biker, etc. So are cyclists recommended to go out with full riding gear now and pedestrians walk around with helmets? Of course not.

But I think, and again, this is limited knowledge based on my thorough studying, reading the threads, etc, that the reality is, is if you have a high speed crash, a jacket and boots isn't going to do any more for your life than not having said jacket and boots. Let's be serious here...sad to say, and it sounds like some on here know someone who has experienced this...but life loss seems a huge possibility in this instance.

YES, you can get into an accident just pulling out of your driveway...but is it likely? No... And why wouldn't similar stats apply to the KIND of motorcycling you're into? Yes, some guys get into it to take the fastest roads, and most risky routes, but there are some of us out there who are content with just casual riding. if the risk of serious accidents is higher for the former rider, why is it reasonable to expect the casual rider will want to, or should, wear the same level of protection as the fast crazy rider?

21 seconds of owning his brand new bike. Crashed.

[video=youtube;Q9zNUPDmnz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4[/video]

Good thing he was wearing full gear. Smart man.

 

[Joe Bass]

I am not an experienced rider, I can only go by what I have read and seen. I will not wear shorts. I will not wear shoes. I had a leather jacket, recently acquired an armored leather jacket. Been looking for riding pants. For now, I wear my chaps or my jeans. (sometimes together, sometimes not ) I have a half helmet, have moved to a modular. It fits my head and my glasses. I'm now in the process of buying touring boots (recommendations welcome). Before I joined GTAM, I truly thought a bucket and tshirt was ok. And I don't consider myself unintelligent, but maybe ignorant to gear. I know jeans are not good, and am looking for kevlar. But I also like to cruise. I avoid highways with the bike (and my car). I like side streets. I've seen the effects of road rash on bare skin as my bil is a cyclist, and he hits ridiculous speeds. And has crashed at them too. I appreciate and accept all advice, and then I make my decisions on what I will wear. It may not be the best, but it is certainly better than before I became a member here. So thanks to the noobs asking questions. Thanks to the seasoned riders giving advice.

I'm serious about the boot recommendations, btw.

 

[meme]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

My mother had a brutal story for me when I told her I was getting a motorcycle. She was a nurse in the ER and she had a squid come in that was in an accident. She said they got him on the table, knocked him out via anesthesia and she said they started scrubbing the gravel out with a wire brush. BRUTAL! That's not the worst part though. The worst part is, it was so painful the guy woke up, sat straight up and started screaming. If that's not enough to get you to put on some gear I dunno what is? That story sticks with me.

It's even worse when you get handed the wire brush for the DIY option.

Wear whatever you want, just know there may be repercussions. I wouldn't hope anyone crashes though for not wearing it, that is just a douchy thing to say. Legally you need a helmet, that's all.

 

[Joe Bass]

Here's the thing...when you go for your m1x course, they don't say you need xxxx. They say a jean jacket, jeans leather gloves etc, at minimum. But they never say what is better or why. The only thing one instructor said was try not to wear all black. We go by what we see, or think we know. I grew up around Harley guys. So yes, I have a bandana, somewhere. Arrrrgh!

 

[marktwothousand]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

Legally you need a helmet, that's all.

i know eh! Bloody interventionists I tell Ya! Where's the wildrose party when you need 'em?

 

[meme]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

I have ridden without a helmet where it is legal. It's my choice. I'd rather have the choice but I don't, so I wear it.

Most MSC offer the talk on why leather is better than denim, and speak of the other options available for gear.

 

[Joe Bass]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

I have ridden without a helmet where it is legal. It's my choice. I'd rather have the choice but I don't, so I wear it.

Most MSC offer the talk on why leather is better than denim, and speak of the other options available for gear.

Quite possible, I may have missed it, but I was paying attention and do not recall. Or maybe it wasn't as emphasized as it is here. I do recall the talk of 3 season textile jackets, though.
Was not meant to speak ill of the MSCs.

 

[LePhillou]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

My MSC mentioned getting better gear. Of course there was minimum requirements for the course but they did mention getting proper gear.

Yes your risk is lower with less exposure. But its as calculated as a roll of a dice. Might happen to you 20 seconds in. Might happen to you 14 years in. You have NO CONTROL OR CLUE when an unavoidable accident is gonna happen.

With the quantity of douchey drivers, distracted drivers, non-educated drivers and careless drivers on the streets, you're basically riding an obstacle course.

We're canadians here, so ill use this as an example: its like saying "people didnt always need gear for hockey so why wear some, why is it mandatory, i play better without it, im lighter and faster"
Well...it was deemed safer. And its only a GAME. Still with some dangers but its a GAME. Where the biggest factors that are against you are, a well placed puck, another professional player checking you, his stick, random freak accident (skate slash, concussions, etc). The surface is slick. And protective gear is mandatory (for decades now).

Now here we're talking about operating an motor vehicle that can go much higher speeds. Only the helmet is mandatory. And we're talking about a cheese grater surface. Dealing with amateurs and idiots controlling 2 tons of various metals. And we're talking about people who have almost no training at all except what they learned by themselves; good and bad habits altogether, no coaching to "play" better and safer on the roads. We have helmet requirements. But doesn't COMMON sense oblige anyone's thought process to consider that it might be beneficial to put the odds on your side by limiting the types of injuries that could be sustained in such an environment by wearing protective gear?

Anyhow... live and let live, but to me...it just doesn't make sense.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

I am not an experienced rider, I can only go by what I have read and seen. I will not wear shorts. I will not wear shoes. I had a leather jacket, recently acquired an armored leather jacket. Been looking for riding pants. For now, I wear my chaps or my jeans. (sometimes together, sometimes not ) I have a half helmet, have moved to a modular. It fits my head and my glasses. I'm now in the process of buying touring boots (recommendations welcome). Before I joined GTAM, I truly thought a bucket and tshirt was ok. And I don't consider myself unintelligent, but maybe ignorant to gear. I know jeans are not good, and am looking for kevlar. But I also like to cruise. I avoid highways with the bike (and my car). I like side streets. I've seen the effects of road rash on bare skin as my bil is a cyclist, and he hits ridiculous speeds. And has crashed at them too. I appreciate and accept all advice, and then I make my decisions on what I will wear. It may not be the best, but it is certainly better than before I became a member here. So thanks to the noobs asking questions. Thanks to the seasoned riders giving advice.

I'm serious about the boot recommendations, btw.

The boots that will give better protection will suck for walking. I have a pair of icon field armour 2. Wish they went further up the shin. Walking... Ha

 

[Joe Bass]

The boots that will give better protection will suck for walking. I have a pair of icon field armour 2. Wish they went further up the shin. Walking... Ha

That's what I am worried about. I am looking for some that might be okay for both.

 

[Roomie]

That's what I am worried about. I am looking for some that might be okay for both.

Hiking style. Ankle protection and still leather and strong. It's that or race style boots which are a pain in the ass for the road.

To each their own about gear. I think riding without is is stupid personally but all anyone can do is offer advice on what to wear and leave it alone. There will always be the vest and a t shirt crowd.

 

[Blackfin]

Re: Spinal protection/injuries

look guys,
I think It's clear everyone knows that the more gear you have, the better protected you will be from breakages, bruises, scrapes and so on...in ALL situations. Now, I'm no rider yet-- (4 more days togo!!) but it seems to me - that there are risk levels involved here. I don't think its reasonable to expect any rider - new or old - to be traversing 80+ KM/h speed roads for long periods with ONLY a helmet. On the other hand, if you have a 15 minute route along city streets to go see a friend on a clear Sunday summer afternoon in relatively slow stop and go traffic, it seems to me that your risk level of getting into a significant accident is a whole lot lower.

All it takes is a spot of gravel or oil in a corner to have a life-altering off. You don't even have to be going all that fast: google road rash resulting from bicycle crashes to see what can happen to bare skin hitting the asphalt at just 20 or 25km/h.

In my line of work we often do failure modes and effects (FMEA) analyses. Two terms (of several) in the methodology are probability and severity. Probability can range from "extremely unlikely" to "basically inevitable" and severity can range from "no ill effects" to "catastrophic". The analysis results in a "risk level" derived from a table in which level is derived at each intersection of probability and severity. The intersection of "improbable" and "no ill effects" means very low risk, but the intersection of "improbable" and "catastrophic", IMO, results in a "high" risk level.

Yes, it may well be a "low" probability that you will crash riding your bike around the block but if you did go down the severity would be potentially catastrophic. That's the thing with motorcycle crashes; every single "off" is potentially catastrophic.

To me, the consequences of riding unprotected are simply too high no matter how low the probability is. I don't want to be permanently disfigured, lose limb functionality (nerve damage) or suffer through agonizing rehab thanks to me rationalizing a minimal-gear ride because I didn't think an off could happen to me.

I'm an old(er) fart (48-yrs old) and very pain-averse; perhaps it's an age thing.

 

[Joe Bass]

Hiking style. Ankle protection and still leather and strong. It's that or race style boots which are a pain in the ass for the road.

To each their own about gear. I think riding without is is stupid personally but all anyone can do is offer advice on what to wear and leave it alone. There will always be the vest and a t shirt crowd.

Went to check out the hiking style like you previously recommended. (thanks for all the info, btw). Was at Bpt Powersports today. Didn't have any in my size.

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