Nailed for driving on shoulder 401 Westney

[油井緋色]

Cashiers and tellers = stop lights.

Lots of cars and trucks can fit on the shoulder. Do you suggest it's ok for car traffic to use the shoulder if it's wide enough?

Rider was behind, rider passes on the shoulder, now rider is ahead. At the next light a car that would have got through on a green light does not because the rider advanced up the cue. Before you say "there's no stop lights on the highway" I'll remind you that there usually are at the end of an off ramp.

Remind me again how it doesn't affect other drivers?

I stand by what I wrote. Changing a law like this would result in a statistically insignificant change. Zero improvement means zero justification to make a change and zero chance of succeeding in such a change.

Give up the charade and just admit you're advocating this for selfish reasons.


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You're assuming the rider stays in the lane once they're off the highway. If they're back to lanesplitting, throughput is added because you've increased the number of lanes able to process vehicles.

And no, btw, cashiers are not stop lights. They're effective lanes. Also, I'm not advocating anything or suggesting for a change. I'm simply pointing out the fact that not only is your analogy wrong...you even got the abstraction of cashiers wrong.

Where do people get these fanciful notions from?

Because I'm from a country where I grew up watching people lanesplit and understand that from a theoretical and engineering point of view, you decrease congestion by allowing lanesplit and shoulder use. The problem is when you get human emotions involved and people start trying to play traffic police by maiming riders via opening doors or blocking. With regards to your other points....you forgot that once the rider has weaved out of lane, the lane tension increases again. Think of it like an elastic band. Overall congestion will decrease.

EDIT: Actually, caboose is a great example of human emotions throwing the notions of selfishness around constantly. Again, I'm not for or against lane splitting/shoulder use because I don't ride in traffic =P

 

[caboose56]

You're assuming the rider stays in the lane once they're off the highway. If they're back to lanesplitting, throughput is added because you've increased the number of lanes able to process vehicles.

And no, btw, cashiers are not stop lights. They're effective lanes. Also, I'm not advocating anything or suggesting for a change. I'm simply pointing out the fact that not only is your analogy wrong...you even got the abstraction of cashiers wrong.



Because I'm from a country where I grew up watching people lanesplit and understand that from a theoretical and engineering point of view, you decrease congestion by allowing lanesplit and shoulder use. The problem is when you get human emotions involved and people start trying to play traffic police by maiming riders via opening doors or blocking. With regards to your other points....you forgot that once the rider has weaved out of lane, the lane tension increases again. Think of it like an elastic band. Overall congestion will decrease.

EDIT: Actually, caboose is a great example of human emotions throwing the notions of selfishness around constantly. Again, I'm not for or against lane splitting/shoulder use because I don't ride in traffic =P

I'm not emotional. I'm just intolerant of stupidity.

People advocating something based on a claimed benefit to everyone that is so small it is essentially zero.

If filtering continues after exiting the highway then the cashier analogy is not applicable. You got me on that point.


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[JFD]

P.S. HTA not allow you stand on a pegs which is essential skill for riding MC.

There has to be a firm line drawn somewhere. I'd argue about it being 'essential', since you say 'stand'. BUT if someone was doing a stunt, if it was legal to stand on pegs where would you be able to definitively discern in a court if he/she was legally riding vs stunting?

Just a tough can of worms to deal with if you don't.

 

[Baggsy]

Because I'm from a country where I grew up watching people lanesplit and understand that from a theoretical and engineering point of view, you decrease congestion by allowing lanesplit and shoulder use. The problem is when you get human emotions involved and people start trying to play traffic police by maiming riders via opening doors or blocking. With regards to your other points....you forgot that once the rider has weaved out of lane, the lane tension increases again. Think of it like an elastic band. Overall congestion will decrease.

You're now in a Country where lane-splitting and shoulder use is prohibited. When in Rome, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The whole idea is to be predictable. If you're lane-splitting, using the shoulder or even weaving through traffic as you stated above, you're not being predictable, and are increasing your danger. Keep in mind that speeds are up, and any collision will end less well for a motorcyclist.

I'm sure that in the Country that you're from, there are also way, way more collisions involving motorcycles, more injuries and more deaths.

For myself I don't live in downtown Toronto anymore, so there isn't any traffic here at all, and the slowdowns that may accumulate, are easily avoided, by a little bit of route planning beforehand.

 

[unL33T]

P.S. HTA not allow you stand on a pegs which is essential skill for riding MC.

This was ruled to not apply to bikes, last I heard. I know I ride past a police station twice a day standing on my pegs (road is really bad in front of the station) and never had a problem. Then again, I'm almost always speeding, too, and have been lucky so far, lol.

 

[Roomie]

How about if I just push my way to the front of a line at a grocery store.

I mean I only have a few items and it doesn't affect people in other lines so why would they care?? It only affects the people in one line and I only have a few items so what's the big deal?


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Brah I drift the grocery store in my vest. I'm too fast for you to get ahead of me

Not interested in lane splitting in this province until they start retesting 90% of the road users that shouldn't have got their licences in the first place.

Fully agree. .. bike and car.

Banks and grocery story is a really bad analogy because there is a bottleneck in the number of operating cashiers. In the case of using a shoulder or lane splitting, you are effectively adding throughput.

Ok. Crossing the border or a us toll booth. Just go around ride right on up to the front. We're on bikes were more important. That mentality is what's wrong mainly with the gta and some of its riders. Not directed at you. .. just saying.

 

[xplorer]

There has to be a firm line drawn somewhere. I'd argue about it being 'essential', since you say 'stand'. BUT if someone was doing a stunt, if it was legal to stand on pegs where would you be able to definitively discern in a court if he/she was legally riding vs stunting?

Just a tough can of worms to deal with if you don't.

Why people who cant define correctly "stunt" make a rules in this country?

 

[Renboy]

I'm not emotional. I'm just intolerant of stupidity.

Would that be irony or coincidence?

Let me write it out for you a little clearer. Lets say you're walking down the corridor in a mall on your way to shoppers to pick up the meds you've clearly run out of. Shoppers is 10 stores up on the right. Now, someone runs past you to get to HMV which is 11 stores up on the right. They don't bump into you or make any contact. How is running past you going to make you take more time to get to shoppers?

 

[JFD]

Why people who cant define correctly "stunt" make a rules in this country?

You can't capture that in a statement/law. For the same reasosn insurance will tell you what's not covered - they simply cannot capture every instance that could come up.

If you make a law definitively stating what a stunt is, you get a stunter with a good lawyer to talk their way out of it. a bit of ambiguity is required for this kind of nonsense.

 

[kellen]

Would that be irony or coincidence?

Let me write it out for you a little clearer. Lets say you're walking down the corridor in a mall on your way to shoppers to pick up the meds you've clearly run out of. Shoppers is 10 stores up on the right. Now, someone runs past you to get to HMV which is 11 stores up on the right. They don't bump into you or make any contact. How is running past you going to make you take more time to get to shoppers?

That might be the worst analogy I've seen on GTAM. Bravo

 

[caboose56]

Would that be irony or coincidence?

Let me write it out for you a little clearer. Lets say you're walking down the corridor in a mall on your way to shoppers to pick up the meds you've clearly run out of. Shoppers is 10 stores up on the right. Now, someone runs past you to get to HMV which is 11 stores up on the right. They don't bump into you or make any contact. How is running past you going to make you take more time to get to shoppers?

Your analogy only makes sense if our dimwit shoulder rider takes the shoulder the entire way home and never rejoins regular traffic

Further, in a discussion about using the shoulder to bypass traffic congestion you use an analogy in which the hallway is wide open enough for Mr HMV to run past me? So the hallway is not congested? That's your rebuttal?

I'm not sure where you're goin with it....


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[Renboy]

That might be the worst analogy I've seen on GTAM. Bravo

I was comparing that to the point I made earlier that when a highway is wide open, someone passing you has no effect on your arrival time. In which case this is a fitting analogy. I wasn't comparing this to blocked traffic.

And caboose is always assuming that everyone is going straight to either his work, or his house (bank and grocery store analogies).

 

[kellen]

I was comparing that to the point I made earlier that when a highway is wide open, someone passing you has no effect on your arrival time. In which case this is a fitting analogy. I wasn't comparing this to blocked traffic.

And caboose is always assuming that everyone is going straight to either his work, or his house (bank and grocery store analogies).

The problem is that if everyone used the shoulder, not just super special people, it no longer becomes faster. It's just another blocked lane.

 

[Baggsy]

The problem is that if everyone used the shoulder, not just super special people, it no longer becomes faster. It's just another blocked lane.

Then it would be like handicapped stickers. Dr. Nick is branching out.

 

[hedo2002]

But if the highway is "wide open" then why the need for the rider to use the shoulder??? So this analogy makes zero sense.

As for the standing on pegs is an "essential" part of riding, really I have used my pegs to lift my butt slightly off the seat when going over a rough patch, But I have never had the need to stand on the pegs.

Bottom line is that riding on the shoulder is NOT legal, nor is it REQUIRED for bike safety. If it is done it is merely for the special snowflakes who feel ENTITLED.

As for the cashier being bottlenecks, surely you haven't rode on this section of the 401 because it reduces from 4 to 3 lanes there IS a bottleneck, Generally about 5 - 6 km long during rush hours and you "lose" (going by arrival time on the GPS), about 12 - 20 minutes. To argue bikes should be able to use the shoulder to avoid this "delay" is merely justifying your feeling previledged. Obviously your time is that much more important than everyone else. To argue by using the shoulder your allowing traffic to flow better and eveyone gets home quicker would only be justified if there were HUNDREDS or THISUANDS of bikes on the highway all together at that moment in time. Otherwise your "creating perhaps 15' of open space" does nothing to assist in the overall flow. At some point down the road you need to merge back into traffic, which then cancels out that 15' of "open space" you created.

As riders we constantly complain of road hazards and sand/salt on the road, well there is a crap load more debris on the shoulder.

If changing lanes, by bikes, (as qwell as other vehicles), had no substantial effect on traffic then there would never be any congestion. Congestion is created when someone "thinks" that other lane is moving quicker and that they NEED to be in that lane. They then move over causing the surrounding vehicles to react, (generally slow down). This then gets amplified as it progresses down the line, and as stated early eventually someone comes to a full stop.

For those arguing to allow shoulder riding and lane splitting they are only doing it for self serving, self entitled, I don't need to follow the rules that the rest of society does reasons. I am sure NO ONE wants to sit in traffic, but that is a fact of life in the GTA and Ontario. If you can't handle it move to NB or NS, and NO where near an urban center.

As for the I will get heat stroke from sitting in traffic... Dude you need to get better gear. If it is 30C out I don't wear my full jacket with all it's liners I remove the liners and ride it as a mesh jacket. Just as I don't wear my full leather jacket and lined textile pants. I am still fully geared up and I have NEVER in 35 years come near heat stroke. If that is a great fear for you then sell the bike and get a cage with AC..Hell I used to have to sit in a cruiser doing radar at times for hours and back then the cruisers had NO AC, I had to wear full uniform and body armour. Again I survived. Oh yeah bottled water wasn't really something that most people ued back then either.

I was comparing that to the point I made earlier that when a highway is wide open, someone passing you has no effect on your arrival time. In which case this is a fitting analogy. I wasn't comparing this to blocked traffic.

And caboose is always assuming that everyone is going straight to either his work, or his house (bank and grocery store analogies).

 

[Renboy]

But if the highway is "wide open" then why the need for the rider to use the shoulder??? So this analogy makes zero sense.

Again this quote was taken out of context. I was pointing out the fact that someone passes you when there isn't traffic that it has no effect on your arrival time.

As for the standing on pegs is an "essential" part of riding, really I have used my pegs to lift my butt slightly off the seat when going over a rough patch, But I have never had the need to stand on the pegs.

Have you never gone on a longer ride where you start to get cramps in your legs. I don't do this often, but from time to time I do stretch out.

Bottom line is that riding on the shoulder is NOT legal, nor is it REQUIRED for bike safety. If it is done it is merely for the special snowflakes who feel ENTITLED.

Aren't you a cop? That's a pretty audacious statement coming from a public sector employee, wouldn't you agree...buttercup :lmao:? If you go back to my first post, I said I would rather ride the shoulder than split lanes because it's...financially...less.illegal? And if I was allowed to split lanes, there would be no chance that I'd be on the shoulder.

As for the cashier being bottlenecks, surely you haven't rode on this section of the 401 because it reduces from 4 to 3 lanes there IS a bottleneck, Generally about 5 - 6 km long during rush hours and you "lose" (going by arrival time on the GPS), about 12 - 20 minutes. To argue bikes should be able to use the shoulder to avoid this "delay" is merely justifying your feeling previledged. Obviously your time is that much more important than everyone else. To argue by using the shoulder your allowing traffic to flow better and eveyone gets home quicker would only be justified if there were HUNDREDS or THISUANDS of bikes on the highway all together at that moment in time. Otherwise your "creating perhaps 15' of open space" does nothing to assist in the overall flow. At some point down the road you need to merge back into traffic, which then cancels out that 15' of "open space" you created.

Here I honestly disagree. It may be 12-20 minutes if you're going from Dixie -> 400. But if you're going across the entire top of T.O., it can become an hour easily. I do agree that if you merge back into traffic, then the net effect is 0. No disagreement there. That said, why would you merge back into traffic? Why not merge back where there is open space? Furthermore, this may be the beginning of a trend. More and more bikers do it, then eventually people that aren't bikers become bikers because of the time savings and there becomes a positive outcome. I understand we're not in another part of the world (or part of the rest of the world that allows this), but ask yourself, have you ever heard of a country where lane splitting is legal, has decided lane splitting isn't beneficial and has changed laws to make it illegal? This is a local forum for all bikes, but I'm sure everyone here is a member of a bike specific forum that's international, can someone post an example where there's a move to change laws to disallow lane splitting?

As riders we constantly complain of road hazards and sand/salt on the road, well there is a crap load more debris on the shoulder.

Here I agree with you completely. To add to your point, if/when you do get a flat, then the cost of a new tire, a tow and the time wasted with all this will have more than justified not using the shoulder. But, it still wouldn't offset the cost of HTA 172, and splitting. Pick your poison.

If changing lanes, by bikes, (as qwell as other vehicles), had no substantial effect on traffic then there would never be any congestion. Congestion is created when someone "thinks" that other lane is moving quicker and that they NEED to be in that lane. They then move over causing the surrounding vehicles to react, (generally slow down). This then gets amplified as it progresses down the line, and as stated early eventually someone comes to a full stop.

This doesn't really apply to bikes only, so I'm not going to comment on it.

For those arguing to allow shoulder riding and lane splitting they are only doing it for self serving, self entitled, I don't need to follow the rules that the rest of society does reasons. I am sure NO ONE wants to sit in traffic, but that is a fact of life in the GTA and Ontario. If you can't handle it move to NB or NS, and NO where near an urban center.

Seeing as it has been PROVEN to lighten the load even on drivers, how is this an ONLY self serving issue? If filtering and splitting didn't have any effect on traffic, then let's take this a step further and ban bicycles from riding past cars on the curb side in the GTA. Specifically in the core. Do you honestly think that if all bicycle riders got into cars instead there would be no net effect? Furthermore, define society. On a global scale, Canada and 49 American states are a vast MINORITY when this law is taken into account.

As for the I will get heat stroke from sitting in traffic... Dude you need to get better gear. If it is 30C out I don't wear my full jacket with all it's liners I remove the liners and ride it as a mesh jacket. Just as I don't wear my full leather jacket and lined textile pants. I am still fully geared up and I have NEVER in 35 years come near heat stroke. If that is a great fear for you then sell the bike and get a cage with AC..Hell I used to have to sit in a cruiser doing radar at times for hours and back then the cruisers had NO AC, I had to wear full uniform and body armour. Again I survived. Oh yeah bottled water wasn't really something that most people ued back then either.

Look at the side effect of this statement. You're assuming everyone has the funds to spend on extra gear. If they don't, and they're not ATGATT advocates, what happens? They remove gear to make themselves comfortable which puts them at more risk of injury.

 

[Chasem]

I was going to say something witty...*shrug* I would however like to have lane splitting, but with the current GTA mentality I can't see that ever happening. Everybody needs to be a special snowflake.

But if the highway is "wide open" then why the need for the rider to use the shoulder??? So this analogy makes zero sense.

As for the standing on pegs is an "essential" part of riding, really I have used my pegs to lift my butt slightly off the seat when going over a rough patch, But I have never had the need to stand on the pegs.

Bottom line is that riding on the shoulder is NOT legal, nor is it REQUIRED for bike safety. If it is done it is merely for the special snowflakes who feel ENTITLED.

As for the cashier being bottlenecks, surely you haven't rode on this section of the 401 because it reduces from 4 to 3 lanes there IS a bottleneck, Generally about 5 - 6 km long during rush hours and you "lose" (going by arrival time on the GPS), about 12 - 20 minutes. To argue bikes should be able to use the shoulder to avoid this "delay" is merely justifying your feeling previledged. Obviously your time is that much more important than everyone else. To argue by using the shoulder your allowing traffic to flow better and eveyone gets home quicker would only be justified if there were HUNDREDS or THISUANDS of bikes on the highway all together at that moment in time. Otherwise your "creating perhaps 15' of open space" does nothing to assist in the overall flow. At some point down the road you need to merge back into traffic, which then cancels out that 15' of "open space" you created.

As riders we constantly complain of road hazards and sand/salt on the road, well there is a crap load more debris on the shoulder.

If changing lanes, by bikes, (as qwell as other vehicles), had no substantial effect on traffic then there would never be any congestion. Congestion is created when someone "thinks" that other lane is moving quicker and that they NEED to be in that lane. They then move over causing the surrounding vehicles to react, (generally slow down). This then gets amplified as it progresses down the line, and as stated early eventually someone comes to a full stop.

For those arguing to allow shoulder riding and lane splitting they are only doing it for self serving, self entitled, I don't need to follow the rules that the rest of society does reasons. I am sure NO ONE wants to sit in traffic, but that is a fact of life in the GTA and Ontario. If you can't handle it move to NB or NS, and NO where near an urban center.

As for the I will get heat stroke from sitting in traffic... Dude you need to get better gear. If it is 30C out I don't wear my full jacket with all it's liners I remove the liners and ride it as a mesh jacket. Just as I don't wear my full leather jacket and lined textile pants. I am still fully geared up and I have NEVER in 35 years come near heat stroke. If that is a great fear for you then sell the bike and get a cage with AC..Hell I used to have to sit in a cruiser doing radar at times for hours and back then the cruisers had NO AC, I had to wear full uniform and body armour. Again I survived. Oh yeah bottled water wasn't really something that most people ued back then either.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

As for the standing on pegs is an "essential" part of riding, really I have used my pegs to lift my butt slightly off the seat when going over a rough patch, But I have never had the need to stand on the pegs.

I think that standing on pegs to ride is pretty much essential when on loose gravel or sand, especially on a heavy 'adventure' bike, but on back roads like that one is also pretty unlikely to encounter any police either.

I likely would have had a much easier go on the Trans Lab if I stood up most of the way (due to the loose gravel in some places and washboard surface in others), however I was far too worn out to stand up for that length of time.

Let's say I was riding the back roads near Port Burwell, which are nothing but sand, would I get a stunting charge for standing on my pegs even though I have a lot more control standing and riding through sand compared to sitting?

 

[hedo2002]

Again this quote was taken out of context. I was pointing out the fact that someone passes you when there isn't traffic that it has no effect on your arrival time.

But we are discussing and your advocating riding on shoulder. So again if not congested then why ride there. But circular logic.

Have you never gone on a longer ride where you start to get cramps in your legs. I don't do this often, but from time to time I do stretch out.

No if the cramps are getting to that point then I pull the bike over and stretch.


Aren't you a cop? That's a pretty audacious statement coming from a public sector employee, wouldn't you agree...buttercup :lmao:? If you go back to my first post, I said I would rather ride the shoulder than split lanes because it's...financially...less.illegal? And if I was allowed to split lanes, there would be no chance that I'd be on the shoulder.

No not a cop, (former), try to keep up with the bouncing ball..lol But even if I were still on active duty, Officers are allowed to have their own opinions, as long as they are expressed or represented as an official policy statement.

Here I honestly disagree. It may be 12-20 minutes if you're going from Dixie -> 400. But if you're going across the entire top of T.O., it can become an hour easily. I do agree that if you merge back into traffic, then the net effect is 0. No disagreement there. That said, why would you merge back into traffic? Why not merge back where there is open space? Furthermore, this may be the beginning of a trend. More and more bikers do it, then eventually people that aren't bikers become bikers because of the time savings and there becomes a positive outcome. I understand we're not in another part of the world (or part of the rest of the world that allows this), but ask yourself, have you ever heard of a country where lane splitting is legal, has decided lane splitting isn't beneficial and has changed laws to make it illegal? This is a local forum for all bikes, but I'm sure everyone here is a member of a bike specific forum that's international, can someone post an example where there's a move to change laws to disallow lane splitting?

One may remerge into traffic for many reasons, debris or other obstacle on shoulder, traffic cones, traffic vehicle, collision with veicles pulled onto shoulder, approaching emergency vehicle, they see a cop sitting up in front of them, exit/on ramp, shall I keep going? Wat happens in other jurisdictions has NO bearing on what occurs here nor the issue being discussed. Otherwise lets compare ALL jurisdictions for all things, (like bike restrictions on new riders etc). Afterall that has the same effect on an Ontario rider as does the fact that Asia permits lane splitting.


Here I agree with you completely. To add to your point, if/when you do get a flat, then the cost of a new tire, a tow and the time wasted with all this will have more than justified not using the shoulder. But, it still wouldn't offset the cost of HTA 172, and splitting. Pick your poison.

Who said anything about a S172 charge? the OP recieved an $85 ticket, considerably less than the above noted costs


This doesn't really apply to bikes only, so I'm not going to comment on it.

So bikes are immune from creating congestion? If a bike changes lanes it still has the same cause and effect on other vehicles. So it is relevant.

Seeing as it has been PROVEN to lighten the load even on drivers, how is this an ONLY self serving issue? If filtering and splitting didn't have any effect on traffic, then let's take this a step further and ban bicycles from riding past cars on the curb side in the GTA. Specifically in the core. Do you honestly think that if all bicycle riders got into cars instead there would be no net effect? Furthermore, define society. On a global scale, Canada and 49 American states are a vast MINORITY when this law is taken into account.

Bicycles are NOT motorized vehicles and therefore, have no bearing on the discussion as it IS legal for them to ride, On the right or the shoulder. Motorcycles it is illegal so try a comparrision where both are MOTOR vehicles under the HTA. Just as Bicycles has specially designated lanes but yet I see on a fairly regular basis motorcycles using them, (along Hwy 7 in Vaughan, so they can "advance faster than the other road users), same as riding on the shoulder.

Look at the side effect of this statement. You're assuming everyone has the funds to spend on extra gear. If they don't, and they're not ATGATT advocates, what happens? They remove gear to make themselves comfortable which puts them at more risk of injury.

I am not sure this is even a practical discussion how often does the 401 come to a COMPLETE stop and not move even a few kilometers for more than an hour in +30C temps that heat stroke is truly a serious medical concern? IF the rider hasn't got proper gear then the APPROPRIATE thing would be move to the shoulder STOP the bike get off and remove gear, then call 911 as you are suffering a medical emergency, (Heat stroke can be fatal). The proper course of action is NOT to pull on the shoulder and ride on. FYI's not all cars have functioning AC so should they too then be permitted to use the shoulder. Not to mention if traffic has come to a complete stand still then how is the rider in any greater danger by removing his gear to cool down?[/QUOTE]

As much as you WANT this to be a case of necessity, it is TRULY nothing more than a poorly veiled attempt to distract that if a rider is using the shoulder to avoid stop and go traffic. it is because they feel entitled and special. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[hedo2002]

I agree for "some types" of riding then peg standing is a pretty common technique. But given we are discussing riding on the shoulder, it isn't a "riding essential" as the poster stated it was in that context. As you have said in those cases, you are likely on a road in which an encounter with an officer is not likely.

Standing on the pegs of a dirt bike is (IMHO) an essential part of riding but then one isn't riding a dirt bike on a road with a shoulder anyway..lol

It was yet another smoke screen thrown in to justify inappropriate riding, (on the shoulder). Although like any infraction there can be abuses, I would suspect MOST people charged with standing on their pegs would be doing so as they were executing a wheelie, rather than "stretching their legs" or riding a back road and using it for greater control.

I think that standing on pegs to ride is pretty much essential when on loose gravel or sand, especially on a heavy 'adventure' bike, but on back roads like that one is also pretty unlikely to encounter any police either.

I likely would have had a much easier go on the Trans Lab if I stood up most of the way (due to the loose gravel in some places and washboard surface in others), however I was far too worn out to stand up for that length of time.

Let's say I was riding the back roads near Port Burwell, which are nothing but sand, would I get a stunting charge for standing on my pegs even though I have a lot more control standing and riding through sand compared to sitting?