Minimum wage spin offs

[just-me]

In 1973, grade 10 education, I was working sales floor Scarborough Town Center for Simpson's. Remember them? Started as a family business.
I was earning $110 @ 40 hour week, $5,720 @ year. We were also paid stock shares, full health care. Cost of a house back then about $40,605, so about 7 years wages. The warehouse employees were paid more. Life was good.
Now you can't get full time so health care does not need to be paid. Company shares, HA.
Try working at Wallymart, and a house is so far out of reach it's not even a dream.
As others have said, SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
The only option I see now for kids is to get a pricey education to earn a decent living.
Glad I grew up when I did, I could not survive in todays work world.

House price from here:

https://davidminer.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/housing_prices_in_toronto_from_1971-2016.pdf

 

[PrivatePilot]

The only option I see now for kids is to get a pricey education to earn a decent living

Doesn't need to be pricy. Get into a trade.

Unfortunately a lot of kids decide to get educations in things for which there is little earning potential. Yeah, I know not everyone is really suited for or wants to dedicate their lives to a trade job, but I struggle to find any sympathy for kids who take things like Theology or Performing Arts, and are then surprised that there's no $100K/year jobs out there to help pay off their $50K education.

Don't even get me started on the seemingly increasing large segment of youth who just finish high school and make no efforts whatsoever to further their education and then whine and moan endlessly online when they get stuck in dead end McJobs that don't afford them the lifestyles they apparently feel they are owed or entitled to.

 

[GreyGhost]

Doesn't need to be pricy. Get into a trade.

Unfortunately a lot of kids decide to get educations in things for which there is little earning potential. Yeah, I know not everyone is really suited for or wants to dedicate their lives to a trade job, but I struggle to find any sympathy for kids who take things like Theology or Performing Arts, and are then surprised that there's no $100K/year jobs out there to help pay off their $50K education.

Don't even get me started on the seemingly increasing large segment of youth who just finish high school and make no efforts whatsoever to further their education and then whine and moan endlessly online when they get stuck in dead end McJobs that don't afford them the lifestyles they apparently feel they are owed or entitled to.

Hell, even if you do a professional post-secondary education that leads to decent jobs, you are making the same or less than many tradespeople and you both started four years later and burned $100k getting the piece of paper. Most never make up that deficit.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

A lot of stores are closing them actually as the theft issues are real. It ranges from people scanning a $500 TV as a $199 one to people just "accidentally" punching in the produce code for the cheap bulk apples instead of the expensive ones actually in the bag.

Some stores more than others. Some are corporate dictated. eg: Friday - CTC Milton. Was walked to the cashier with the item I was purchasing. Removed from cage and handed to me once I was in line at the cashier. Item? $6 5-pack of 30A mini blade fuses.

The other side of the coin? I've found franchise owners with $hady practices to be the most suspicious of their customers marks and the worst at treating them like criminals. eg: No Frills - Waterdown. , I will not buy dairy there. The fridges + freezers are all $et to the legal max. temp. Fridges in the back? Probably higher temp than legal. 18% cream will never make the BB date before it curdles. Frozen items are either partly thawed or loose stuff like fries/veggies/etc. are a solid frozen block (had thawed in back then frozen again in display freezer). Store is filthy. Hand baskets have chronic food debris/stains. More than 2 cashiers on a Saturday is considered a Frill. "Coincidentally", a metal gate has been installed at the exit of the self serve unpaid cashier section, locking mechanism controlled electronically by one of the two staff member watching everything that gets scanned at the units.

 

[just-me]

Doesn't need to be pricy. Get into a trade.

Opps, ya. Should have said decent employable education. Last job I had before retire was CNC programmer/operator at a high end tool & die shop.
36 week schooling at collage to start the job.
Best money I ever made.

 

[nobbie48]

Doesn't need to be pricy. Get into a trade.

Unfortunately a lot of kids decide to get educations in things for which there is little earning potential. Yeah, I know not everyone is really suited for or wants to dedicate their lives to a trade job, but I struggle to find any sympathy for kids who take things like Theology or Performing Arts, and are then surprised that there's no $100K/year jobs out there to help pay off their $50K education.

Don't even get me started on the seemingly increasing large segment of youth who just finish high school and make no efforts whatsoever to further their education and then whine and moan endlessly online when they get stuck in dead end McJobs that don't afford them the lifestyles they apparently feel they are owed or entitled to.

Some do alright if they get into a union labour shop driving a lift truck. Then the plant moves to Indiana and the union arm wrestles the company and government for a decent severance package.

I met a guy that went through that, partied hard for six months after they closed Goodyear tire in Mimico. Then the coin ran out. He's an assistant janitor at a condo. Six months of retraining would have been a better use of the settlement. Some people are born to flip burgers.

 

[nobbie48]

I don't know that the feeling is universal, almost all Tim's donuts suck now and a lot of franchisees know that, but they also don't have a choice as they're only allowed to do what is decreed from the ivory towers, with food they're decreed to buy from the ivory towers, and sell at prices that are decreed by the ivory towers.

Lawsuits against the ivory towers from franchisee owners are not uncommon. A bunch were filed in quebec just a week or so back, for that matter.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/tim-hortons-franchisees-lawsuit-quebec-1.7160090

In the better days some TH locations had different choices. Oat cakes are like slightly less sweet oatmeal cookies but I only saw them in Hamilton and Burlington. .....and if you want to calibrate a micrometer you can use one of their fritters, not an extra large one on the planet.

 

[Mad Mike]

I don't feel bad for billion dollar profit multinational conglomerates being forced to pay a living wage, and in CA, $20 is still not a living wage, but it's a lot better than the pittance that they usually pay.

The problem with all this is the greed and drive for "shareholder value". Shareholders for McDonands just expect billions of dollars in profits every year now, and the windfalls that provide. When a company is actually forced to pay their employees fairly for the work they do and it inconveniently bites into profits, the shareholders get upset, and then there's negative financial consequences for the company. This, IMHO, needs to stop somehow - I'm literally living this at my employer right now, and it sucks. We need to stop normalizing companies making tens, hundreds, or billlions of dollars in profits while treating the employees who actually make those profits like inconveniences along the path to even more millions or billions.

Personally Im not a fan of minimum wage, particularly the type deployed in California.

First, increasing wages will always have the consequence of eliminating jobs. Already California chains have cut 10,000 delivery jobs that paid $16UDS/hr -- they will go to cheaper Ubrer eats. Expect more investment into automated order/checkout kiosks which will further job losses.

McD jobs are a staple for students, not the general labor force. Eliminating those jobs has a terrible cost.

 

[PrivatePilot]

McD jobs are a staple for students, not the general labor force. Eliminating those jobs has a terrible cost.

As much as companies want to cry about being forced to pay better, these jobs are not going to go away.

Does everybody remember the kicking and screaming that happened when Ontario minimum wage took a huge jump a few years ago? There were companies complaining on Facebook that claimed they were going to have to fold, cut staff, all sorts of other Complaints, yet here we are years later and they're all still doing business.

 

[crankcall]

They are all still in business , we are all just paying more for it now . The business owner has two choices , make less or cover costs . You always cover costs first .


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[FullMotoJacket]

Last MW increase our wages increased that pay cycle to maintain the spread. Won't know till Friday if it is implemented again.

 

[PrivatePilot]

They are all still in business , we are all just paying more for it now . The business owner has two choices , make less or cover costs . You always cover costs first .


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Fair, but eventually that creates demand destruction and things will reach a point where big corporate companies are going to have to decide to sacrifice profits to continue to survive.

 

[Malks]

Fair, but eventually that creates demand destruction and things will reach a point where big corporate companies are going to have to decide to sacrifice profits to continue to survive.

Do you really think that any corporate company will sacrifice profits? I don't believe that will ever happen.

 

[Mad Mike]

As much as companies want to cry about being forced to pay better, these jobs are not going to go away.

Does everybody remember the kicking and screaming that happened when Ontario minimum wage took a huge jump a few years ago? There were companies complaining on Facebook that claimed they were going to have to fold, cut staff, all sorts of other Complaints, yet here we are years later and they're all still doing business.

I sold my small business in 2012. I had 8 people in Toronto and 2 in Buffalo. Min wage was $10.25, my policy was to pay unskilled workers 30% above the minimum and paid 50% of a basic benefits program. This added $200K a year to my payroll cost, but it was worth it to me as I attracted the best people and I had zero churn in labour.

When I sold the business, it didn't take the new owners long to figure out they could save $200K/year in labour by moving all the jobs to Buffalo. So they packed up the Toronto warehouse and moved.

I was in the textile business, and like me the cost of labor was bearing hard on others in the industry. For labor-intensive businesses, wages are often the biggest component in cost of goods. If labor costs jump, the business has 3 options: 1) relocate to where the labor is less expensive, 2) automate - neither a good thing for a min wage worker.

In 2002 the GTA had 15 knitting mills employing 600 people, 3 finishing houses employing 300 people, and about 15,000 jobs in sewing factories and shops.

Today there are 2 small knitting mills, 1 small finishing house, and about 1,000 jobs in sewing factories. The GTA lost 15,000 direct jobs, and probably the same indirect (transport, services, supply chain...).

From 2004-2010 minimum wage in Ontario climbed by 50% -- it's no coincidence that 1 in 7 manufacturing jobs were lost-- that's 300,000 Ontario jobs.

 

[Mad Mike]

As much as companies want to cry about being forced to pay better, these jobs are not going to go away.

Does everybody remember the kicking and screaming that happened when Ontario minimum wage took a huge jump a few years ago? There were companies complaining on Facebook that claimed they were going to have to fold, cut staff, all sorts of other Complaints, yet here we are years later and they're all still doing business.

If you are keeping track... Trends in manufacturing employment, Ontario lost 300,000 direct manufacturing jobs.

While minimum wage hikes are not the only factor the 50% increase in minimum wage exerts upward force on allwages so industries where unskilled labor made up a significant portion of their costs suffered the most. They are easier to relocate and sometimes exist because affordable labor is available.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Do you really think that any corporate company will sacrifice profits? I don't believe that will ever happen.

Do you really think that when push comes to shove a corporation like McDonald's will just start closing locations because they don't want to pay the legally required prevailing wage?

If you are keeping track... Trends in manufacturing employment, Ontario lost 300,000 direct manufacturing jobs

When the alternative is a race to the bottom with wages, safety, work-life-balance....people being able to keep a roof over the head and out of destitute poverty, amongst other things, then where do we find a happy medium?

I'm seeing the results of the race to the bottom in the last 10 years of my 30 years in the trucking industry. It's not pretty.

We should not be ok with this. Problem is considers are addicted to cheap and disposable.

 

[GreyGhost]

Do you really think that when push comes to shove a corporation like McDonald's will just start closing locations because they don't want to pay the legally required prevailing wage?.

I don't think they'll close but at a certain point, a hamburger making robot and deep fryer robot become economically viable. Cut a bunch of $20/hr jobs. McDonald's already basically eliminated order takers, you need to wait for someone to come out of the back if you want to order through a person.

Edit:
In this specific turd, add an oven to bake some bread/buns and keep paying crap wages.

 

[Malks]

Do you really think that when push comes to shove a corporation like McDonald's will just start closing locations because they don't want to pay the legally required prevailing wage?

Actually yes, and that is just one option available to corporations. They will continue to reduce staff, increase prices, close less profitable stores and or automate. The automated versions are already in use in some places. Why do you think McDonalds brought in those self serve ordering kiosks? I'm sure that saved at least three or four staff that used to serve you at the counter. Online ordering has also helped to reduce customer service positions.

Make no mistake, I'm all for an increase to the minimum wage because it's the only way I ever get a pay increase at the ski hill / golf course. However, you must keep in mind that any increase to operating expenses by an employer WILL be passed along to their customers. Eventually they will price themselves out of business and then there will be even fewer entry level / student jobs available.

 

[nobbie48]

I sold my small business in 2012. I had 8 people in Toronto and 2 in Buffalo. Min wage was $10.25, my policy was to pay unskilled workers 30% above the minimum and paid 50% of a basic benefits program. This added $200K a year to my payroll cost, but it was worth it to me as I attracted the best people and I had zero churn in labour.

When I sold the business, it didn't take the new owners long to figure out they could save $200K/year in labour by moving all the jobs to Buffalo. So they packed up the Toronto warehouse and moved.

I was in the textile business, and like me the cost of labor was bearing hard on others in the industry. For labor-intensive businesses, wages are often the biggest component in cost of goods. If labor costs jump, the business has 3 options: 1) relocate to where the labor is less expensive, 2) automate - neither a good thing for a min wage worker.

In 2002 the GTA had 15 knitting mills employing 600 people, 3 finishing houses employing 300 people, and about 15,000 jobs in sewing factories and shops.

Today there are 2 small knitting mills, 1 small finishing house, and about 1,000 jobs in sewing factories. The GTA lost 15,000 direct jobs, and probably the same indirect (transport, services, supply chain...).

From 2004-2010 minimum wage in Ontario climbed by 50% -- it's no coincidence that 1 in 7 manufacturing jobs were lost-- that's 300,000 Ontario jobs.

Another problem of the downsizing is getting people with the skills back when they've moved onto something more stable.

 

[Mad Mike]

Do you really think that when push comes to shove a corporation like McDonald's will just start closing locations because they don't want to pay the legally required prevailing wage?

Nope. The will continue automating. I'm sure their app and those self serve kiosks have quick payback. We have robots at the shop that weld, run CNC machines, and assemble products more complicated than a Big Mac. These machines could easily be trained to assemble a burger.

When the alternative is a race to the bottom with wages, safety, work-life-balance....people being able to keep a roof over the head and out of destitute poverty, amongst other things, then where do we find a happy medium?

I think the market finds a happy medium. I mentioned earlier that I had to pay 30% above min wage to attract employees that were dependable and loyal.

There are some philosophical questions too, I’ll toss one out — should a worker that is unwilling to make his labour more valuable thru training or education be rewarded by or entitled to wage subsidies?

I'm seeing the results of the race to the bottom in the last 10 years of my 30 years in the trucking industry. It's not pretty.

That might be the industry’s problem to fix. Has technology and regulation lowered the level of skill necessary to drive. Auto transmissions, speed Nannie’s, GPS….