The only actually fallacy in this entire thread is your inability to see what others are saying. No one has said, (me included being heard is a bad thing). What we ARE saying is that running a straight or obnoxiously loud pipe, is not an "attempt" to save one's life, but it is a good way to piss people off and draw unwanted police attention.
First, you're moving the goalposts hedo. Now it's "
straight or obnoxiously" loud pipes don't save lives. Being heard, it seems we now agree, is a "good" thing. So right away, "loud" exhaust -- obnoxious or otherwise -- is a good thing from a driver-awareness perspective. Ergo, they
assist -- your words from post #24 here -- in making other drivers aware of the presence of a bike in their vicinity. That's half the battle of course; having them react accordingly is the other and we have no control over that. But just as you can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, basically eliminating one of a driver's senses (hearing) from his perception toolbox means you essentially zero out his chances of hearing you. That may make the difference if he also doesn't see you.
Second, I am interested to see how urban accident statistics materialize over time as electric motorcycles begin to appear in increasing numbers in urban settings. This would include, BTW, electric bikes vs pedestrians as well as MVCs involving electric bikes and cars that didn't see nor hear them. We already know, for example, that pedestrians are more likely to be struck by a near-silent electric car than by a petrol-powered equivalent. A
DailyMail (UK) article from March of 2015 reports that "
walkers are 40 per cent more likely to be run over by a quiet hybrid or electric car than by one with a petrol or diesel engine" and that there was "
a 54 per cent increase in pedestrian injuries in accidents involving quiet cars between 2012 and 2013". I've not done the full research but it appears that electric vehicles will likely be required to carry noise makers to alert pedestrians to their presence. In this case, noise does save lives. I don't see the difference between cars and pedestrians and cars and bikes.
But then again, you've sort of sidled from the "
loud pipes don't save lives" argument to one involving objections to subjective measures of obnoxiousness so perhaps you agree: noise is a contributor to conspicuity and, in measured amounts at least, this is a good thing.
The issue of level of obnoxiousness is purely subjective. Even the police enforce this based on their own opinion; while dB SPLs can be objectively measured with calibrated equipment a level of obnoxiousness is based purely on one's opinion. There are posters here who appear to hate bikes and bikers in general who no doubt would classify even a fully-muffled Goldwing as a nuisance because, well, motorcycle. There are others who love the sound of a screaming I4 or V4 so much that they stop and watch a bike go by, the louder the better, because, well, MotoGP. Opinions likely vary wildly in the general populace as well.
I'd agree that an open pipe exiting under the engine is "obnoxious." I'd say he's maximizing his noise conspicuity at the expense of good will and, perhaps, good taste. But like other things, this needn't be a binary decision. It is possible for an exhaust to be loud enough to enhance conspicuity without being "obnoxious." I think a full-can exhaust like the Yoshi, especially with the insert installed, is a good example.
The OP admits that his current pipe, (on his new to him bike), is so loud that it even bothers him. He asked if it was true that this would help save his life. No one has said it wouldn't...
A lot of people here and elsewhere are adamant that loud pipes don't help save lives. I won't bother but a search of such threads here would likely turn up loads of arguments saying this very thing. The general argument of the "loud pipes don't save lives" faction includes things like the exhaust shoots out the back so people ahead of you never hear it.
but that he should rely more upon skills he will learn over time, (he only has been riding this past season on a 300 and the new bike is a 600 ss). His learning proper riding skills and gaining valuable abilities is at this point in his riding career much more important than keeping the loud pipe in the "belief" it will save his life.
I agree that skills and situational awareness are among the most powerful tools we have to keep ourselves safe but argue that other "assists" like hi-viz and sound can also be valuable tools in helping to keep us be seen, heard and safe(r).
This subject has been beaten to death, just as I have no verifiable SCIENTIFIC studies done, on the effects a loud motorcycle exhaust pipe, (seeing that is what we are talking here, sirens etc don't apply) ...
I don't agree that you can simply poo-poo noise-makers ranging from train air horns to firetruck sirens; they are noise-makers designed to get your attention to let you know that these vehicles are approaching. And they work. I don't see how that's so different from a motorcycle making its presence known with sound.
, on other drivers. Nor do you I suspect have and verifiable SCEINTIFIC studies pointing out that loud motorcycle exhaust pipes save lifes.
As noted above studies involving electric vehicles and pedestrians are providing insight into how "quiet" vehicles pose a hazard to pedestrians. It's not a stretch to say that pedestrians not noticing a quiet vehicle and drivers not noticing a quiet motorcycle/vehicle are similar phenomena.
I know there are many antedotital stories of people saying a loud pipe saved them, just as there are many stories of Harleys with straight pipes still astoundingly getting hit despite their loud pipes.
Apples and oranges. A loud pipe may indeed contribute to a car stopping at the last moment; in places where lane splitting is allowed hits of throttle are often used to warn car drivers of the presence of a motorcycle coming up. Such a noise may stop a car from trying to dart across a lane of traffic if an opening forms.
OTOH, being hit "despite" a loud exhaust doesn't invalidate the aforementioned benefit. I've already stipulated to the fact that nothing can protect us from
every eventuality; a car driver may continue with his lane change and take the bike in the passenger door but the key point is that with "loud pipes" there are a non-zero percentage of drivers that
will stop, that
not every one will proceed. Someone who didn't see a bike in his blindspot has a better chance of stopping if he hears that sound. That's one example. If that one example involves you as a rider you'd think your pipes saved your *** on that one occasion. How many occasions for how many riders is required for them to be deemed beneficial?
Part of the problem, of course, is that we often don't know when a loud(er) exhaust contributed to our safety. If we make it home was it because someone along the way heard us coming and as a result, didn't do something stupid to ruin our day? Would we even be aware of this as we motored merrily along?
