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Is ramping illegal?
- Thread starter 油井緋色
- Start date
Tripletrouble
Well-known member
On a motorcycle it is advised to lift from the seat to allow your elbows and knees to absorb shock in certain circumstances. This is from the official Ontario handbook. I also have a letter somewhere that I copied from a post here some years ago written by James Snow who was the then minister of transport for Ontario explaining that the "ghosting" part of the stunting law was written specifically for car drivers that sit in the passenger seat whilst driving and NOT for motorcycles.
I'm not sure if this is pertinent to the ramping discussion which seems to be more about excessive speed than merely not having your butt in contact with the seat at all times?
I'm not sure if this is pertinent to the ramping discussion which seems to be more about excessive speed than merely not having your butt in contact with the seat at all times?
Somewhere I read that the standing on the pegs advice in the handbook had been removed. Does anyone have an up to date book to confirm? Again HTA 172 is too vague. Anything can be implied with dire consequences.
ddusseld
Well-known member
Not to beleaguer the point too much but if you were hanging off at your controlled speed you would lean less and reduce risk even more. Heck, if you hang off with your riding style you would eliminate risk, maybe you would approach straight up and down...... 
Ha, I'm right...
Ha, I'm right... Funny thing is that you are totally wrong. I control my speed, and don't need to lessen my lean angle, because it already is less. Therefore, less risk.
Not to beleaguer the point too much but if you were hanging off at your controlled speed you would lean less and reduce risk even more. Heck, if you hang off with your riding style you would eliminate risk, maybe you would approach straight up and down......
And if you slow down enough, you may need to hang off the other side, or you'll fall.
You're wrong. Hopefully, never dead wrong.
Can I hang off, yes. Do I hang off on the street? No.
Slow in, look, everything's clear, fast out.
Saying it reduces risk, is like people saying they need loud pipes, or high beams on. i.e. Just an excuse for their behaviour.
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It did vanish for a couple of years, but from Rob's link looks like it has re-appeared.
Oh good. You can get the case thrown out. You're still out the suspension and impound fees and the LEO gets his overtime but justice will have been done. Sarcasm font.
Doesn't matter one iotia. The drivers handbook is merely "guidance and advice" It is NOT legislation which the HTA and specifically S172 is. Minister Snow can "interpret" the legislation anyway he deemed at the time.
If to exclude motorcycles from that section, (was the minister's intent), then they HAVE to be excluded via the wording of the legislation, not verbally by the "then" minister. He is no longer the minister and as such anything he may have said at the time holds no more credibility to a court today than if I were to make the same "declaration" today...lol
If to exclude motorcycles from that section, (was the minister's intent), then they HAVE to be excluded via the wording of the legislation, not verbally by the "then" minister. He is no longer the minister and as such anything he may have said at the time holds no more credibility to a court today than if I were to make the same "declaration" today...lol
Good point.
What bugs me is that one arm of the government suggests something and another fines you for doing it because it's illegal.
Why would they remove motorcycles from that section anyways? We still have dickwads on donorcycles doing stand-up wheelies whether their feet are planted on the seat or on the pegs, dickwads on donorcycles with their legs stretched up over their handlebars, dickwads on donorcycles laying flat out their fuel tanks with their feet draped out over their rear turn signals and rear cowl.
There are plenty of reasons to leave motorcycles in that section. It's not just for teens ghostriding on top of their cars.
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The part about wheelies makes the part about getting off the seat rather superfluous, in that respect.
Waved at a guy on a deserted road the other day, so he wheelies up and crosses the line.
Am I that attractive?
No.
Riding isn't for everyone.
Some people should take up Parachuting, Bungee jumping, Shark feeding, or something less dangerous to others.
Can you point me to some documentation? The fact that all road markings are cautionary interests me. Just curious how you would prove this statement when asked.
HTA 182 "Regulations, signs and markings" says "(2). Every driver or operator of a vehicle or street car shall obey the instructions or directions indicated on any sign so erected. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (2)."
This says nothing about markings, which agrees with your claim. Is there anything else you are aware of which agrees with your claim?
Thanks
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Unfortunately you can't prove a negative. The references aren't there, with respect to lines. You'll find statements in things like the Driver's Handbook about what they indicate, but you won't find anything in the way of legislation to show what they DON'T do.
That is very true. I guess this is what it comes down to:
- Cop does what cop wants (Writes you for unsafe lane change because you crossed on a solid line).
It would be his (or a lawyer's) job to prove what you were doing was unsafe in court. Looks like simply crossing on a solid line (of any colour) is not enough.
Thanks
ddusseld
Well-known member
Actually in an advanced rider course I've practiced hanging off the other side during some low speed drills. I managed not to fall.. or die... Yay, I'm right again..
Seriously man, you need to lighten up. Are you really comparing hanging off to loud pipes and high beams? At the very least you will not annoy people with loud noise or bright lights when you are hanging off the bike.
Yay, I'm right again.. Seriously man, you need to lighten up. Are you really comparing hanging off to loud pipes and high beams? At the very least you will not annoy people with loud noise or bright lights when you are hanging off the bike.
Actually in an advanced rider course I've practiced hanging off the other side during some low speed drills. I managed not to fall.. or die...
Seriously man, you need to lighten up. Are you really comparing hanging off to loud pipes and high beams? At the very least you will not annoy people with loud noise or bright lights when you are hanging off the bike.
I may have taken the same course. Never had to use it on the street yet.
I found that using an appropriate entry speed for the conditions and sight lines, works better. Hanging off in a turn, you are prepared to turn sharper. With an appropriate speed, you can turn either way, or even come to a complete stop.
Besides, you went there, with the "hanging off is safer" claim.
The noise and commotion of you running into the back of a car may make the lack of lights moot. The people won't lighten up much when you've damaged their car.
Anyway, I don't have to worry too much about ramps, the road around here, haven't all been straightened.
I may have taken the same course. Never had to use it on the street yet.
I found that using an appropriate entry speed for the conditions and sight lines, works better. Hanging off in a turn, you are prepared to turn sharper. With an appropriate speed, you can turn either way, or even come to a complete stop.
Besides, you went there, with the "hanging off is safer" claim.
The noise and commotion of you running into the back of a car may make the lack of lights moot. The people won't lighten up much when you've damaged their car.
Anyway, I don't have to worry too much about ramps, the road around here, haven't all been straightened.
There is some objective truth to the statement. If you can increase the contact patch dimensions of properly inflated tires, without impacting your control of the vehicle, then you are able to brake and maneouvre better. Proper form in hanging off doe not impact your ability to control the vehicle.
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