Is ramping illegal? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Is ramping illegal?

nobbie48 said:
HTA 172 is extremely vague so the LEO can use his imagination. You might beat it in court but that will be after your week suspension is done with and your bike seizure and assorted fees are dealt with by you. Tough luck if you drive for a living. Unless you can prove the cop was acting in malice there's no hope for compensation. Winning doesn't carry much satisfaction.

A cop told me that the speed limit was technically what was safe for the conditions with a maximum of what was posted. In other words in an ice storm you could get a speeding ticket for doing 90 kph on the 401 in an ice storm.
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That's a good point about the unavoidable inconvenience if charged.

conundrum said:
I think the bigger question is why your butt is off the seat. There's no reason to need to do it within the speed limit, so I can see a cop having issues with this. It would be a different story if the limits were much higher, and you had to hang off in order to make the turn.
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My interest in this discussion was mainly academic but I do slide my butt partially off the seat from time to time. I really so no problem with this in and of itself as long as the rider isn't being reckless. It doesn't hurt to do it (in fact it feels more balanced) and it doesn't increase risk (dangling off like a maniac is a different story). I admit, it's usually during more "spirited" riding but who isn't guilty of that occasionally.
 
Funny thing is that you are totally wrong about the hanging/leaning off.. :) As others have explained, you lean less at a given speed by hanging off. Less lean angle results in less risk... :) Backing it in is another story... :)


Baggsy said:
I look at it, in that if I'm going fast enough that I lean off, or back it in, then I'm adding risk to my ride.

I like to be risk averse on the street.
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There is moving on the seat/body positioning to assist with cornering to keep the bike upright, and then there is trying to hang off like an orangutan and get a knee down when it is not at all required. I'll position myself according when going into a corner to keep the bike more upright if the speed requires or weather conditions require it, but I don't do it 100% of the time. I've seen some people who just 'want to get a knee down' and will try to corner like this at 50-60km/h, where their butt is not even really on the seat...not slid over, not 1 cheek off, but literally 90% off the seat. To me, that looks as dumb as someone practicing their racing crouch on the streets at 40km/h.
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
The problem is that once you've done enough track time, the riding style can become automatic. I'm pretty sure that I look silly getting my butt off the seat at 50 Kmh, in intersection left turn, but it has become the way that I ride.
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to me, 50kph on a turn at an intersection is too fast for the street. If you are in full lean dragging your knee what if you you need to stop because some moron decides to make a right turn into your lane?? What if it were a pedestrian that decides to cross because they are looking at their phone? What if it were a child? A dog? I would also worry about debris on the road, pot holes, etc. The roads downtown are a disaster and street car tracks can be scary if you're in full lean. Maybe I'm just a chicken.

A turn on the track is not the same as at an intersection. A track is a closed course with the pavement maintained better than our roads. All you need to worry about is hitting the apex, not if a dog is gonna come running across your path.
 
mech9t5 said:
to me, 50kph on a turn at an intersection is too fast for the street. If you are in full lean dragging your knee what if you you need to stop because some moron decides to make a right turn into your lane?...
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I don't think Rob says anything about full lean or knee-dragging, just butt off seat. And by that he probably means slid over a half cheek or less. So he has his centre of gravity moved over, bike not leaned as much so maintaining traction, and thus better capable of dealing with the unexpected: can lean the bike more or less as needed. As stated somewhere above, there are degrees of leaning off. Street riding doesn't require much but it often increases safety to lean off a wee bit (that is, not like my avatar). On a ramp where you have to get your speed up quickly it would seem sensible to employ this skill. (Hitting 100+ in the curve is unnecessary of course and can only increase risk.)

There are many wide intersections in the GTA with good visibility where 50 is reasonable. For example, left onto Eglinton from Jane (but watch for running bus passengers!). Downtown is a different matter.
 
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mech9t5 said:
to me, 50kph on a turn at an intersection is too fast for the street. If you are in full lean dragging your knee what if you you need to stop because some moron decides to make a right turn into your lane?? What if it were a pedestrian that decides to cross because they are looking at their phone? What if it were a child? A dog? I would also worry about debris on the road, pot holes, etc. The roads downtown are a disaster and street car tracks can be scary if you're in full lean. Maybe I'm just a chicken.

A turn on the track is not the same as at an intersection. A track is a closed course with the pavement maintained better than our roads. All you need to worry about is hitting the apex, not if a dog is gonna come running across your path.
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Please reread the comment to which you just replied. I look silly with my butt off the seat, in a 50 Kmh intersection left, BECAUSE I'M VIRTUALLY UPRIGHT.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
If I wasn't virtually upright, how would getting my butt off the seat look silly? Go out and try a left turn at 50 Kmh. Physics dictates lean angle.
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I think you'd look silly getting off the seat to make a left turn in the city period (upright or leaned over) so I wouldn't assume you were "virtually upright" by your "silly" comment.

And, it is impossible to leap to the conclusion you were "virtually upright" via "Physics". Bike lean angle required turning at 50kph depends on a ton of factors, not just speed. Physics requires knowledge of not only speed, but tire pressue, traction, road conditions (sandy? wet? others?), rider weight, entry speed, decelerating vs accelerating, temperature, angle of entry, physical dimensions of the lanes, and so many more.
 
mech9t5 said:
I think you'd look silly getting off the seat to make a left turn in the city period (upright or leaned over) so I wouldn't assume you were "virtually upright" by your "silly" comment.

And, it is impossible to leap to the conclusion you were "virtually upright" via "Physics". Bike lean angle required turning at 50kph depends on a ton of factors, not just speed. Physics requires knowledge of not only speed, but tire pressue, traction, road conditions (sandy? wet? others?), rider weight, entry speed, decelerating vs accelerating, temperature, angle of entry, physical dimensions of the lanes, and so many more.
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Try it.
 
AF4iK said:
That's a good point about the unavoidable inconvenience if charged.

.
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The biggest problem with HTA 172 is that you are punished before being convicted. After your day in court and found guilty them hammer the perp with anything they want.

A week off work can cost a person their job. Add to that the tow / impound fee and you can be out thousands. A lot of households are less than that away from flat broke. It can be a lot more than inconvenient.

HTA 172 doesn't just apply to M/C's. Stalin would be proud.
 
I have a question about something that was referred to earlier in this thread regarding solid single white lines, solid single yellow lines and solid double yellow lines: I was always under the impression that it is illegal to cross a solid single or double yellow line b/c you are effectively now driving the wrong way down a street. I ask this because, for example, Islington north at Rutherford. Many cars lined up to turn left, that they extend past the marked left turn lane. Then that left turn lane turns into a left turn lane for southbound traffic on Islington turning into the community centre. People constantly drive the centre "lane" (solid yellow, both sides) through the s/b left turn lane to bypass the traffic. They also sometimes extend back through that lane. Now when I am going to drop my son off fir swimming, I have to force myself to get into that lane and have received many 1 finger salutes for my efforts. I always thought that I had the ROW. Am I mistaken?
 
Joe Bass said:
I have a question about something that was referred to earlier in this thread regarding solid single white lines, solid single yellow lines and solid double yellow lines: I was always under the impression that it is illegal to cross a solid single or double yellow line b/c you are effectively now driving the wrong way down a street. I ask this because, for example, Islington north at Rutherford. Many cars lined up to turn left, that they extend past the marked left turn lane. Then that left turn lane turns into a left turn lane for southbound traffic on Islington turning into the community centre. People constantly drive the centre "lane" (solid yellow, both sides) through the s/b left turn lane to bypass the traffic. They also sometimes extend back through that lane. Now when I am going to drop my son off fir swimming, I have to force myself to get into that lane and have received many 1 finger salutes for my efforts. I always thought that I had the ROW. Am I mistaken?
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Lines, regardless of colour, are not a regulatory device in Ontario. Signage is what matters and may, in conjunction with lines, mean something. An example would be the lines on QEW, 403, etc. marking the HOV lanes. They only mean something, because of the applicable signage.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Lines, regardless of colour, are not a regulatory device in Ontario. Signage is what matters and may, in conjunction with lines, mean something. An example would be the lines on QEW, 403, etc. marking the HOV lanes. They only mean something, because of the applicable signage.
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There's a reason why the lines are different colors. White is mandatory. Yellow is not.
You should get informed before posting.
 
mech9t5 said:
There's a reason why the lines are different colors. White is mandatory. Yellow is not.
You should get informed before posting.
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So because my left turn lane line is white, I do have right-of-way, correct?
And regardless of line/ colour etc. I'm sure crossing over them an driving the wrong way on a street would earn you an HTA 172.
 
mech9t5 said:
There's a reason why the lines are different colors. White is mandatory. Yellow is not.
You should get informed before posting.
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Umm, no. Colours are guidelines only. Take your own advice and quit posting ****.
 
ddusseld said:
Funny thing is that you are totally wrong about the hanging/leaning off.. :) As others have explained, you lean less at a given speed by hanging off. Less lean angle results in less risk... :) Backing it in is another story... :)
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Funny thing is that you are totally wrong. I control my speed, and don't need to lessen my lean angle, because it already is less. Therefore, less risk. :p
 
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