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How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles?
- Thread starter 油井緋色
- Start date
Riceburner
Well-known member
Is there any comparison of total cost of ownership of an EV/hybrid(purchase, use and charger install at home) vs a similar ICE car?
BUT...if you aren't getting a new car, the smaller amounts paid at each fill up for a older gas guzzling SUV make it "easier" on the wallet each week.
BUT...if you aren't getting a new car, the smaller amounts paid at each fill up for a older gas guzzling SUV make it "easier" on the wallet each week.
And quoting each charge at $1.25 each I was being very generous. In reality it was probably around $1 each as most were off peak, although some were recharges through the day on mid peak, so I kinda averaged it out.
Riceburner said:
Buying an EV solely to save yourself money versus a paid off vehicle isn’t going to save you anything. Agreed.
Buying an EV when the time comes you NEED a new vehicle will.
Look at my examples in the EV thread. Both our vehicles were nearing end of life. We needed replacements. Bought 2 used EV’s versus regular cars. Have been laughing ever since.
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boyoboy
Well-known member
Keep spinning your wheels.
I feel quite comfortable with my statement, because it's based on knowledge of people who actually are in the business of making EV cars ..... you know how many of these hot irons they get every day? A lot ... you know how many have actually any probability being viable solutions for mass transportation in the next 20 years. None. This is from people who are actively looking and listening for someone to bring them either a more promising battery chemistry or other form of renewable fuel. These people are not against, they just know that hydrogen fool cell is not something we will be able to use in the next at least 20 years for mass transport.
Good enough for me, but you guys can keep dreaming and in the meantime, I just plug in in the warmth of my garage ....
they had some fuel cell buses running in vancouver in the mid - late 90's. as a test. Think it was ballard fuel cells? I watched them on the market for awhile but it wasn't making any real gains, was going down. no idea today. There is always potential. Has there been much progress in 20 years? doesn't seem so.
Riceburner
Well-known member
is it like computer tech where that $1k item is worth nothing in a few years?
The Prius battery is pretty small compared to a real EV - the size of a small suitcase.
Even Volt batteries are not that expensive however - look on car-part.com and there's tons of 2013-2015 entire battery assemblies for between $1000 and $2000, most with pretty low miles.
Private Pilot
Ummmm you know very well that is a luducrous comparison.
Hydrogen is a transportable fuel with a huge upside for scaling costs down.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/05/hydrogen-fuel-dream-wont-die/
https://phys.org/news/2017-10-pursue-low-cost-efficient-technologies-hydrogen.html
and not directly relevant
Ummmm you know very well that is a luducrous comparison.
Hydrogen is a transportable fuel with a huge upside for scaling costs down.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/05/hydrogen-fuel-dream-wont-die/
https://phys.org/news/2017-10-pursue-low-cost-efficient-technologies-hydrogen.html
and not directly relevant
Just posting the facts.
And that story with the $83 listed cost of fuelling a Honda Clarity wasn't exactly long, long ago either. What WILL the cost be here? Nobody knows. If it's $83 in the USA where fuel is typically dirt cheap compared to us, I think my conversion based on the exchange rate only may have actually been quite generous, actually.
And with a $1.6M cost of a single filling station serving but only a small handful of cars...well, someones going to want to actually make a profit if these actually ever make it to the consumer market, so would one expect any sort of break on the cost of the fuel they dispense?
I stand fast that a charging station in my own driveway is more convenient than ANY other fuel source, short of maybe Natural Gas where you can fuel in your own driveway as well.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Remember to add HST to everything but the basic energy charge.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
No attempt to smear -- I spent a lot of time with the Chevy dealer looking for ways to make this work -- those are their numbers, not mine. I ended up with a Cruze LT, the comparison was with a VOLT LT - that's about as apples to apples as you can make it. The prices of each car were the best I could negotiate (for the Cruze it was the price I paid) all in after tax and rebates. The Volt also required a $2000 220v CopperCreek charger as quoted by the dealer. I did not include the $500 cost to install this in my garage.
For EV's you can't use the MSRP as the comparison, at the time I was looking there was Zero/0/notta discount on EVs. In some cases like the Bolt, dealers were charging a hefty premium over MSRP. I see the Volt prices have come down a bit recently, but with a charger they are still $40K out the door.
Wrong again. The energy itself costs .065/kwh to -- delivery and other fees are metered too, only a portion is fixed rate. You also pay HST on all but the base electricity charge. For me the average off peak 'extra cost' are about 0.085 where I live.
You are partly correct, that's how much energy the batteries hold and use to cover 100KM. You are missing the fact that charging batteries takes energy itself as chargers are about 80% effecient -- you pay for that loss. Add charging loss to your 17kwh and you get my number.
My numbers are right. Your numbers considered the price of electricity, you forgot to add network loss charges losses (4%), the metered portion of utility admin/delivery costs .08kwh, HST etc on non-energy utility charges -- and you are assuming the car never needs to be charged outside non-peak hrs.
No again. You are not taking into account anything but the raw cost of energy at the absolute cheapest time of use. That's unrealistic. There are lots of studieds on the Volt, when compared to a Cruze nobody gets 50% fuel savings.
If you think this is the case, step into a dealer - you can get a Cruze LT for $22K OUT THE DOOR. Volt prices have dropped a lot, but with a charger you're still looking at out the door. The dealers I went to laughed at the GM price your car printouts I brought to them.
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You dont need a charger thay is just the dealer trying to upsell the charger the car comes with will do level 2 I have been since i bought the car. The hydro rate I posted was after all taxes etc from my bill and i only charge the car off peak so i pay less than that to charge. I paid around $32 otd. Half of the problem seems to be the dealers dont know what they are selling.
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Did you not look at what I posted 8.3 cents after all taxes and fees is my cost with hydro one at the highest delivery rate in ontario. it would be cheaper for anyone who is higher density or in a city. That was also my cost per kw averaged over my total use i only charge the car off peak so it is actually under 8.3c per kwh. I even posted a bill. 8.3 c total after all taxes fee charges etc.
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Shouldn't be much different for the first few years of ownership as most new cars include oil changes etc for the first few years, but are less in the long run on a ev.
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Not much anymore all i have done is oil changes on my truck until 100000 and new brakes at 100000. Still under warranty until 160
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Pretty sure fluids should be changed at 70kish/2years for a lot of models. Now does the average person actually follow the schedule? I suppose that's up for debate.
Really? Well i'm certainly shocked. Nice!
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