Cold Weather Bad for Motorcycle Engine? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cold Weather Bad for Motorcycle Engine?

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What's the proper warm up for a 2 stroke, anyway? I've read too many different opinions online. Some say to idle it until warm. Others say baby it until warm. Mine has never idled well while (really) cold so I usually need to blip the throttle to keep it going which usually means I just ride it and try to keep the revs down a bit.

I don't know about 2-strokes on bikes but on my airplane it was important to warm it up before taking off as takeoff was always done with wide open full throttle. Note that even sitting there at a fast idle there was some load on the engine from the propeller. You had to make sure the Cylinder heads were up to a certain temperature as when they were it would mean that all the internal parts had expanded equally. I think if I had a two stroke bike I would ride it very gently once it ran okay (ie off the choke and idling smoothly) and not give it full throttle for a few minutes after startup.

Smarter minds than mine will likely have better information to pass on.


..Tom
 
The cold dense air is going to play a bigger part with the 2 stroke because the engine lubricant is carried in the air/fuel mixture. I wouldn't think summer jetting be very healthy in the winter.
 
Sooo , my take away from this conversation. FI bike dont need warmed up? well the fueling system will work, but the valve train and bearings and seals will all still be stone cold.
2 stroke bikes were (are) sold in eastern block countries and russia where they were cheap to operate and build, and it was really cold in winter, and they ride them year round
You can dress like a snowmobiler and be warm, WTF would you want to? unless your into ice racing, then carry on.
Airplanes have shutters and cowl flaps, I have no idea how that will help anybody with a motorbike. My transport truck had a vinyl cover on the rad, you'd get out and open the 'cowl flaps' , sometimes Id pretend it was an airplane. That info wont help you on a bike either.
 
Sooo , my take away from this conversation. FI bike dont need warmed up? well the fueling system will work, but the valve train and bearings and seals will all still be stone cold.
2 stroke bikes were (are) sold in eastern block countries and russia where they were cheap to operate and build, and it was really cold in winter, and they ride them year round
You can dress like a snowmobiler and be warm, WTF would you want to? unless your into ice racing, then carry on.
Airplanes have shutters and cowl flaps, I have no idea how that will help anybody with a motorbike. My transport truck had a vinyl cover on the rad, you'd get out and open the 'cowl flaps' , sometimes Id pretend it was an airplane. That info wont help you on a bike either.
I don't plan on riding all winter or anything. But I ride down to close to zero. I also thought summer jetting might not be great.
 
I bought myself some 30$ winter motorcycle gloves from Re-Gear and some heavy winter boots. I bought my riding jacket specifically because it was long and fit a little wide, I wear a sweater and long-sleeve thermal shirt under it. Thermal long-johns and flannel-lined denim pants (splash pants overtop for the wet and particularly windy rides). Thermal hunting "neck sock" (like a half balaclava, wear it up my neck to my nose) and my regular riding helmet. I've ridden in around -5 temps and I was toasty warm, except for the time I forgot to close my jacket vents! Rode to work today and yesterday.

Same as everyone else said, there's less traction and even less when the salt/sand comes. The motor works just fine in the cold, if anything better because of the denser air. A carbed bike might need a small adjustment, but I really don't know too much about them. Check your tire pressure, it will change in the cold.
 
You might consider the nurses are going to lose precious minutes cutting you out of all that in case of an off or t bone.
 
You might consider the nurses are going to lose precious minutes cutting you out of all that in case of an off or t bone.
I'm not quite dressed up like the Michelin man :) It's really only 1 more thin layer on top and bottom. The gloves pull right off, boots are 1-zip, neck sock is super thin and scrunches right up easily. None of it impedes my movement, and honestly I feel super safe and padded lol! Toasty warm too.
 
lol. I was hoping he has a clue and can self evaluate. But if not, then NO, don't do it since you are a new rider and still gaining experience. Do not try, do or do not. Don't do it.

Sooo , my take away from this conversation. FI bike dont need warmed up? well the fueling system will work, but the valve train and bearings and seals will all still be stone cold.
2 stroke bikes were (are) sold in eastern block countries and russia where they were cheap to operate and build, and it was really cold in winter, and they ride them year round
You can dress like a snowmobiler and be warm, WTF would you want to? unless your into ice racing, then carry on.
Airplanes have shutters and cowl flaps, I have no idea how that will help anybody with a motorbike. My transport truck had a vinyl cover on the rad, you'd get out and open the 'cowl flaps' , sometimes Id pretend it was an airplane. That info wont help you on a bike either.

This-is-one-of-your-better-works.
 
I'm not quite dressed up like the Michelin man :) It's really only 1 more thin layer on top and bottom. The gloves pull right off, boots are 1-zip, neck sock is super thin and scrunches right up easily. None of it impedes my movement, and honestly I feel super safe and padded lol! Toasty warm too.

Oh ok, you had me worried.
 
Your face does need need to get cold if your helmet has a chin curtain (or whatever it's called.) My EXO helmets in the past had an anti-fog coating which worked well at avoiding fogging. My current helmet has the Pinlock system and doesn't fog.

I agree about good clothing. Good bike clothing should actually do a good job of keeping your neck covered and warm. In addition, if you have a heated jacket it should include a heated collar as well.

If you have a modern fuel injected bike there is no reason to "warm up" the engine unless it isn't running right. (And most run right immediately.) Engines warm up best when running with a light load so ride away and take it easy for the first little while.

I have never had any brake issues in cold.. whether using semi metallic or standard organic brakes. Is this something unique to sport bikes? Do you use pads that are better suited to the track than the streets?

I used to use heated grips but after getting heated gloves I see no reason to use them. In fact I have a set of heated grips that has been sitting in my "Bike Box" for about four years that I might install someday but haven't felt any pressing need.

..Tom

had a shield pin but it broke so now the visor always fogs up - no biggie though except for the first few KM.

brakes for me as somewhat of a small issue (maybe due to the fact that i need to change the fluid or something else) .... there is no bite as i apply them soon after starting .... as i get on the highway and i brake more often they seem to work better or i adjust with the lethargic nature of cold rider, cold pads/rotors and seems ok.

tires, i take it slow and seem fine, only one time felt like I was floating with both wheels but could have been some sort of sensory deprivation due to the cold wind

Overall: keep your core temperature up - nothing worst than hypothermia. Keep hands and feet as warm as possible. ride with due care and be considerate of mother nature and machine
 
Sooo , my take away from this conversation. FI bike dont need warmed up? well the fueling system will work, but the valve train and bearings and seals will all still be stone cold.
2 stroke bikes were (are) sold in eastern block countries and russia where they were cheap to operate and build, and it was really cold in winter, and they ride them year round
You can dress like a snowmobiler and be warm, WTF would you want to? unless your into ice racing, then carry on.
Airplanes have shutters and cowl flaps, I have no idea how that will help anybody with a motorbike. My transport truck had a vinyl cover on the rad, you'd get out and open the 'cowl flaps' , sometimes Id pretend it was an airplane. That info wont help you on a bike either.

love this man ... while you were turning the rad flapper up/down did you make plane sounds around it? neewwaaaaoooouuuuummmmhhhhhh ..... trrrrrrrr
 
Nobody ride carb. bikes in the cold nowadays? My old Ninja used to ice up the carb when it was 6~7 degrees C and wet/misty/foggy out. That was the only thing I couldn't get around. I could dress warm and also installed Barkbusters to keep the wind off my hands.
 
My coolant goes around the carbs, so not icing for me. :)



...cake only please.

I see those coolant circuits for European market bikes in service manuals sometimes... I guess they figure we're wimps?
 
My coolant goes around the carbs, so not icing for me. :)

Ditto here...carb on my VTX comes up to temp fast so it tends to stabilize very quickly, even in subzero.

where did you come up with "shutters"?? then providing a link to "cowl flaps"

Dude, same thing. Shutters is a misnomer but my mind was wandering towards the truck side of things. Not sure how long you've been driving, but if you were operating any class 8 stuff back in the 80's you'd be familiar with the shutters in front of the rad - sometimes automatic, sometimes manual controlled by a switch in the cab...fairly common in late 70's and early 80's tractors.

Yes, in a plane the "technical" term is cowl flaps.

There's lots of info out there for and against the phenomenon of shock cooling, but you'll often notice that many of those who say it's "not a thing" are in warm climes. Sure, if you're flying in the south (even in the "winter" when it's still 20+c out) and you chop the throttle from WOT to idle at 5000 feet, even assuming the standard lapse rate of 1.98c per 1000 feet (so it would still be 10c at 5000') it's not going to hurt things. Try doing that on a cold winters day here in the north when it's -20 out on the ground and -30c at 5000 feet (or -40c at 10,000, etc etc etc) and the risk of engine failure exists, but more often....stress fractures. Those fractures may sleep without issue for a long time one of two things happens:

- Best case scenario...they are caught during the aircrafts annual or engine major inspection and it costs you a small fortune to replace a jug or 2.
- Worst case scenario...one day when you least expect it that tiny little stress fracture from that one cold February day when the engine was shock cooled rears it's ugly head, a cylinder does like the picture below, and you're dealing with an engine failure. Most common time it happens is often during the most critical phase of flight as well - takeoff. And bad things ensue.

754088.jpg


Anyhow, for anyone who values their engine, their wallet, or their life, doing whatever you can in aviation to ensure the health of your powerplant (especially on a single engine plane) is a wise move..and that includes prudent use of cowl flaps when recommended.

I don't know about 2-strokes on bikes but on my airplane it was important to warm it up before taking off as takeoff was always done with wide open full throttle. Note that even sitting there at a fast idle there was some load on the engine from the propeller. You had to make sure the Cylinder heads were up to a certain temperature as when they were it would mean that all the internal parts had expanded equally.

Exactly. Cylinder head temps or oil temp was a standard checklist item for all the rental planes I ever flew and it was absolutely forbidden to exceed 1000RPM until the oil temperature gauges moved at least into the bottom of the "normal" range. I burned many hundreds of dollars sitting on the apron on cold winter days waiting for those gauges to move, but it beat engine failure anyday - all pilots understand and appreciate the reasons behind it.

I have an Ultralight airplane (don't fly nowadays.) Mine has a Rotax 503 which is a twin cylinder, air cooled 50hp engine (Glorified snowmobile engine with dual ignition.) Cold shock wasn't an issue with it but some of my Friends with Rotax 582's (Twin cylinder Liquid cooled if I am not mistaken) have experienced it.


..Tom

It is real.

Anyhow, I know this is perhaps not interesting for the MC crowd here, but taking care of your engine is important, that's the ultimate point here - that 20 or 30 seconds you let an engine warm up from a very cold start is the difference between all the moving parts having adequate oil flow, or not. Operating it gently for the first 5 minutes or so is the difference between it warming up evenly and minimizing wear and tear, or not.
 
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wth-plane-is-that?...Ebayspecial:D

it sad "safe for kids" when my mom gave it to me, but now i wonder how special is it (or I):)

So, if engine is cold, has some proper oil in it, leave it there fore a few seconds running and ride it slow until i gets warmed up should be fine.

On my bike, as the engine warms up but at speed, the temperature gauge is within the lower 1/3 , when i stop then it climbs to where it is supposed to be around the 1/2 mark (no leaks) .... kind of got it as normal being air cooled.
 
Yes, air cooled engines don't have the benefits of a thermostat (that blocks or restricts coolant flow to help the engine get up to operating temperature even in the cold), so yes, they do typically run colder on anything that exposes the engine to airflow. When you stop and that airflow ceases, yes, you'd expect a temperature increase like you're seeing.

It's also one reason they tend to be less efficient in cold weather since they struggle (or may never) achieve the ideal temperature for 100% efficiency.

So, if engine is cold, has some proper oil in it, leave it there fore a few seconds running and ride it slow until i gets warmed up should be fine.

Basically, yep. If I was going to be riding all winter long I'd swap out the typical 15W30/15W40 motorcycle weight oil for something thinner as well. Snowmobiles for example will often use 0W30 or 0W40 - the thinner cold weight (the first number) means faster oil flow when the engine is dead cold, so things get protected faster.

Here's an interesting video that visualizes how thick engine oil can get and how viscosity makes a huge difference. Unfortunately the video doesn't list the temperature of the oil at the time of the test, but knowing what I know about 15W40 (the typical weight used in heavy diesels) having struggled to pour it into an engine in the middle of the winter...I'd estimate probably -20/-30c. Obviously we aren't riding motorcycles at those temperatures, but you can still see a dramatic difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMr7XxitOkg[video=youtube;aMr7XxitOkg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMr7XxitOkg[/video]
 
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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by V-Tom

I have an Ultralight airplane (don't fly nowadays.) Mine has a Rotax 503 which is a twin cylinder, air cooled 50hp engine (Glorified snowmobile engine with dual ignition.) Cold shock wasn't an issue with it but some of my Friends with Rotax 582's (Twin cylinder Liquid cooled if I am not mistaken) have experienced it.
..Tom
It is real.

i believe y'all are referring to "shock cooling"

a link has already been provided in this thread prior

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=shock cooling
Shock cooling refers to the theory that damage to engines (particularly air-cooledaviation piston engines) may occur because of an excessively rapid decrease in temperature.
is it real?

you did say


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by yodude
where did you come up with "shutters"?? then providing a link to "cowl flaps"
Dude, same thing. Shutters is a misnomer but my mind was wandering towards the truck side of things. Not sure how long you've been driving, but if you were operating any class 8 stuff back in the 80's you'd be familiar with the shutters in front of the rad - sometimes automatic, sometimes manual controlled by a switch in the cab...fairly common in late 70's and early 80's tractors.

Yes, in a plane the "technical" term is cowl flaps.

There's lots of info out there for and against the phenomenon of shock cooling, but you'll often notice that many of those who say it's "not a thing" are in warm climes. Sure, if you're flying in the south (even in the "winter" when it's still 20+c out) and you chop the throttle from WOT to idle at 5000 feet, even assuming the standard lapse rate of 1.98c per 1000 feet (so it would still be 10c at 5000') it's not going to hurt things. Try doing that on a cold winters day here in the north when it's -20 out on the ground and -30c at 5000 feet (or -40c at 10,000, etc etc etc) and the risk of engine failure exists, but more often....stress fractures. Those fractures may sleep without issue for a long time one of two things happens:

- Best case scenario...they are caught during the aircrafts annual or engine major inspection and it costs you a small fortune to replace a jug or 2.
- Worst case scenario...one day when you least expect it that tiny little stress fracture from that one cold February day when the engine was shock cooled rears it's ugly head, a cylinder does like the picture below, and you're dealing with an engine failure. Most common time it happens is often during the most critical phase of flight as well - takeoff. And bad things ensue.

754088.jpg


Anyhow, for anyone who values their engine, their wallet, or their life, doing whatever you can in aviation to ensure the health of your powerplant (especially on a single engine plane) is a wise move..and that includes prudent use of cowl flaps when recommended.

there's also quick info googling "shock cooling"

personally, i have zero hands on experience with rotax, or the experimental end of aviation
 
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