Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 72 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Total cost of ownership (TCO) isn't something you can actually figure out until the car goes to its next owner or the scrap heap.

My guideline for daily driver crapboxes is that depreciation plus repairs are allowed to cost 10 c/km. Less than that is a good car. I took both of my VW diesels past 400,000 km ... both were good cars. I doubt if my Fiat will last that long ... but it doesn't have to, because it was cheap. I don't buy fancy expensive vehicles as daily drivers.

With the electrics, the reduced fuel cost would allow that number to be higher (by the difference in fuel cost) for the same TCO. A little car uses about 6 L/100 km ... about 6.6 c/km at today's fuel prices.
 
Brian P said:
Total cost of ownership (TCO) isn't something you can actually figure out until the car goes to its next owner or the scrap heap.

My guideline for daily driver crapboxes is that depreciation plus repairs are allowed to cost 10 c/km. Less than that is a good car. I took both of my VW diesels past 400,000 km ... both were good cars. I doubt if my Fiat will last that long ... but it doesn't have to, because it was cheap. I don't buy fancy expensive vehicles as daily drivers.

With the electrics, the reduced fuel cost would allow that number to be higher (by the difference in fuel cost) for the same TCO. A little car uses about 6 L/100 km ... about 6.6 c/km at today's fuel prices.
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The government says reasonable mileage compensation for driving a personal vehicle is around $0.50 a Km. Their calculations include depreciation, fuel, maintenance and insurance. A 10 year old car has pretty much flat lined in depreciation at near zero.

If you paid $40K for it new and it has 200,000 km on it the depreciation is $0.19 / km. Insurance at $2,000 a year adds $0.10 to the cost and fuel maybe the same depending on the car.

If it is still reliable and someone buys it as a beater for $2,000, drives it for 20,000 km, sells it for $500 their depreciation is $0.075 / km. No one in their right mind goes for full coverage on a beater so cheaper again.

I actually had a used VW paid for, including purchase price and all expenses by using it as a company service vehicle. Rule 1 is reliability. Rule 2 is dump the ego.
 
^ yup and most of the mileage on my daily drivers is customer-pay. I aim to make money by driving a vehicle whose TCO is less than what Revenue Canada allows us to charge. It means no fancy high end cars as daily drivers, but I don't care.

My current daily driver was bought on a zero-interest loan, and as long as monthly mileage billings is greater than loan payment + insurance + fuel + repairs, it comes out on the good side. If there's car left at the end of the loan, so much the better.
 
Brian P said:
Total cost of ownership (TCO) isn't something you can actually figure out until the car goes to its next owner or the scrap heap.

My guideline for daily driver crapboxes is that depreciation plus repairs are allowed to cost 10 c/km. Less than that is a good car. I took both of my VW diesels past 400,000 km ... both were good cars. I doubt if my Fiat will last that long ... but it doesn't have to, because it was cheap. I don't buy fancy expensive vehicles as daily drivers.

With the electrics, the reduced fuel cost would allow that number to be higher (by the difference in fuel cost) for the same TCO. A little car uses about 6 L/100 km ... about 6.6 c/km at today's fuel prices.
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Right ... however, the difference between operating an old gas car I own vs. new-to-me electric car I have to purchase is real ... so some ownership assumptions should be made part of the calculation before you one can make statement that savings are xx or my cost per km is xx .... whether you assume to own it 5 or 10 years doesn't matter, as long as it's clear what it is. To make it zero is definitely making the result look better than it is in reality .... from cash flow standpoint on monthly basis.

0.10c/km ... sounds low to me, but perhaps there are cars and financing deals which one could arrive to such numbers .... I am reluctant to consider your car and driving, since you are operating for business reasons and your driving patterns are definitely out of norm ... :)
 
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Another thing to consider is insurance. If you go from a trash heap to the Volt you may pay more but I went from a G37 to the Volt. My insurance company (and many others) offer a discount for hybrid and electric vehicles. My insurance went down by over $700/year.
The Green plate really comes in handy and shortens some of my drives.

I went from spending over $400 in gas every month to just $40.
 
For anyone looking for a gen 1 Volt ... I spotted a used one at a used car lot on Kipling Avenue. I know nothing about it, since I just happened to see it from the street when driving by. It's south of the old location of Pro 6 Cycle (and on the same side of the street) and north of the new location of Pro 6 Cycle. It's blue.
 
Is the green plate a one time expense or do you have to get it renewed on top of your sticker each year.

I think it should be included if you own a hybrid etc...
 
sburns said:
Is the green plate a one time expense or do you have to get it renewed on top of your sticker each year.

I think it should be included if you own a hybrid etc...
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One time and no costlier than any other non-personal plate as I recall.
 
slowbird said:
Another thing to consider is insurance. If you go from a trash heap to the Volt you may pay more but I went from a G37 to the Volt. My insurance company (and many others) offer a discount for hybrid and electric vehicles. My insurance went down by over $700/year.
The Green plate really comes in handy and shortens some of my drives.

I went from spending over $400 in gas every month to just $40.
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Interesting definitely. But I will say it makes zero sense to me. Nothing else has changed in your insurance profile? Insurance is about the driver by far, not the car. So, for you to go 700$ less, just because you drive electric, is something I have never heard of from another EV user. Have you possibly switched insurance company, or perhaps you were grossly overpaying for the G37 (happened to me and happens all the time, you just don't know it, until you found out one day the significantly better deal ...)?

Anyway, if that turns out to be a trend in Ontario, this might be a significant incentive ... knowing what the Ontario car insurance is, I have my serious doubts that these guys will let their revenues dip for other reasons than market regulation.
 
sburns said:
Is the green plate a one time expense or do you have to get it renewed on top of your sticker each year.

I think it should be included if you own a hybrid etc...
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It's no different than any other plate so far as costs and such.

Only vehicles capable of operating solely on electric are eligible for the green plates - Hybrids are still effectively gasoline powered cars for all intents and purposes so they don't qualify.

mxs said:
Interesting definitely. But I will say it makes zero sense to me. Nothing else has changed in your insurance profile? Insurance is about the driver by far, not the car.
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Disagree. The cost, risk profile, replacement and repair cost, and overall safety aspect of a car can have a HUGE effect on insurance pricing.
 
mxs said:
Interesting definitely. But I will say it makes zero sense to me. Nothing else has changed in your insurance profile? Insurance is about the driver by far, not the car.
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PrivatePilot said:
Disagree. The cost, risk profile, replacement and repair cost, and overall safety aspect of a car can have a HUGE effect on insurance pricing.
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Yeah, I have always noticed that the vehicle plays a large role in insurance pricing. When I was shopping around a few years back I noticed a Brand new Kia Optima fully loaded was significantly less expensive than the older used G37x Sedan I ended up getting. Also the Sedan was slightly more expensive to insure than the Coupe.
...and all of those options were more expensive than the Fiat500 Abarth I had at the time.

When this thread started my insurance policy had renewed and it had shot up quite a bit. I noticed while skimming the new Insurance Documents that there was a note saying they offered discounts to Hybrid and electric vehicle. I asked my broker to check the pricing on a Volt and it was much much less $$ so that got me started on the track to where I am now. Happily in an 2014 Volt saving loads of ca$h.
 
You're both right and both wrong.

Insurance cost is largely based on the driver profile, but the car you own affects your profile as a driver. Someone who owns a minivan is much less likely to be a liability on the road as someone who owns a sports car. So it's kind of about the car, but indirectly.

I guess EV drivers tend to be pretty sedate and cautious. Makes sense ...though Teslas might be an exception.
 
fastar1 said:
You're both right and both wrong.

Insurance cost is largely based on the driver profile, but the car you own affects your profile as a driver. Someone who owns a minivan is much less likely to be a liability on the road as someone who owns a sports car. So it's kind of about the car, but indirectly.

I guess EV drivers tend to be pretty sedate and cautious. Makes sense ...though Teslas might be an exception.
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Vehicle repair costs will play a role too in rate. EV's you'd think would be expensive to repair but maybe the driver profile savings exceed the vehicle repair profile??
 
I watched a Youtube video of electric drag racers and some comments were funny.

One criticism was that they didn't make enough noise. Reminded me of the steam locomotive relationship to the braggart. The steam that blows the whistle doesn't drive the wheels.

Another criticism was that you have to charge the batteries after one run. (Some blown fuelers have to rebuild the whole engine)

Can you get a sound system for an EV that has a switch to make it sound like a BBC, ricer, F-1 to impress the crowd at hand?
 
LBV said:
Vehicle repair costs will play a role too in rate. EV's you'd think would be expensive to repair but maybe the driver profile savings exceed the vehicle repair profile??
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSwUEVx5G3U

The link is to a battery rebuild company. You don't have to spend $7G every time it punks out. A grand or so every few years isn't unreasonable.

There are lots of electric motor rebuild shops out there.

EV's will get into crashes and be written off. Used motors will be come available.

BTW the electric motor in my beer fridge is still working fine after probably 60 years with zero maintenance.

Unless abused electric motors seem to last forever.

I am however concerned about digital dashes and circuit boards that could become unavailable. Aftermarket suppliers and repair shops may step in. I know of a shop in Woodbridge that rebuilds obsolete industrial controls. If the IC's are available boards can be rebuilt. Enough demand and someone will make the IC's.
 
nobbie48 said:
I am however concerned about digital dashes and circuit boards
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Welcome to pretty much every car coming out of every automaker nowadays.
 
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