Actually, it was Kleck 2001a who made that claim. The NRC just quoted and referenced him/her and said that it warranted more study.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/28/controversial-pro-gun-researcher-helped-write-f/194660
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50 shot dead - Orlando shooting
- Thread starter -D-
- Start date
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/28/controversial-pro-gun-researcher-helped-write-f/194660
Id like to believe that with all their domestic spying and satellite coverage, the government will prove a lot more resourceful on US grounds than on "enemy grounds"
Besides, their war and reasons for war keep morphing all the time, ever since 9/11 its been war and more war. Because toppling one regime only gets another regime in place which then upsets another regime from another region and the cycle never ends, even if you're tactical about it, you create more problems by removing the one.... a whole bunch of people are benefiting from it (ie arms manufacturers)
-D-
Banned
You do realize a lot of that is just for show and to justify their 50% budget spending on 'defense' not to mention the rest of the military industrial complex that if they tanked so would the country.
It's like diabetes, don't find a cure, more money in maintenance.
The government couldn't make the military attack its citizens. Division would lead to civil war. If youd rather be unarmed during an armed uprising, that's your problem. Personally I think it's nuts not to have a gun when many of your peers do.
And yes, people armed with crude weaponry have survived full scale attacks from big modern armed forces. Look at just about any conflict with Russian or US forces.
-D-
Banned
Do you foresee an armed upraising here in Canada or the US in your lifetime?
What would a civil war in Canada look like?
Why have a messy war when you can drain your citizens of their $$ and program them to be stupid...alter their food supply (more sugar), stuck on meds, etc...
What war will you have with a bunch of fat kids hooked on video games that can barley work a microwave to make a pizza pocket?
I wouldnt have foreseen it in my old country either, but then it happened. Don't act like there's no precedent. Many civilized and progressive nations have fallen into complete anarchy throughout recent history. We are not special, we are not immune. Given the freedom to choose, I would choose to be armed. Its not even a question.
The Founders failed to consider something in their noble effort to ensure "the people" could overthrow a tyrannical government: Citizens turning these weapons on each other due to everything from bonafide mental illness to human nature -- hate, anger, passion, religion, greed, substance abuse and so on.
It is interesting to me that the US spent a trillion dollars, suffered thousands of casualties etc when it went to war in Iraq some years ago, ostensibly due to the threat of "WMD" -- weapons of mass destruction (mustard gas, VX, sarin and "some of the most lethal weapons ever devised") yet seems oblivious to the toll taken right at home by WMDs that outnumber the population of the US itself. Between 2001 and 2013 (including 9-11), 3,380 people died due to terror attacks aimed at Americans at home or abroad. Over that same time period deaths on US soil due to firearms was 405,496. In other words, in fighting "WMD"s in Iraq the US actually suffered more casualties than were inflicted by terror attacks. Meanwhile, 100x as many people died (not even including "casualties" of the injured variety...) of homegrown WMD terror and nobody bats an eye. Weird...
I wish the pro-gunners would drop the pretense that they need their guns to keep the government in check. For one thing, virtually every single American with these viewpoints -- mentally in a place to raise a weapon to the government -- is a fat, out-of-shape slob Person Of Walmart that wouldn't last 5 minutes on any sort of battlefield, urban or otherwise. They're hooked on their corn dogs and Cheetos, their cheap gas and diesel, their hamburgers and water and so on. Sometimes, the argument is made that goes something like the military wouldn't fire on its own citizens; if so, why the need for guns with which to fight?
For another, when such actions occur against government "target" -- the Murrah Building bombing, Gabby Giffords -- the country gasps, with only 50 or so nuts in the backwoods of Michigan cheering. There will be no en masse armed revolution in the United States. Any militia guys driving around in pickups armed like Somali "technicals" looking for a fight will be swiftly dealt with as domestic terrorists and the rest of the country will breathe a sigh of relief, then go back to the mall.
It is interesting to me that the US spent a trillion dollars, suffered thousands of casualties etc when it went to war in Iraq some years ago, ostensibly due to the threat of "WMD" -- weapons of mass destruction (mustard gas, VX, sarin and "some of the most lethal weapons ever devised") yet seems oblivious to the toll taken right at home by WMDs that outnumber the population of the US itself. Between 2001 and 2013 (including 9-11), 3,380 people died due to terror attacks aimed at Americans at home or abroad. Over that same time period deaths on US soil due to firearms was 405,496. In other words, in fighting "WMD"s in Iraq the US actually suffered more casualties than were inflicted by terror attacks. Meanwhile, 100x as many people died (not even including "casualties" of the injured variety...) of homegrown WMD terror and nobody bats an eye. Weird...
I wish the pro-gunners would drop the pretense that they need their guns to keep the government in check. For one thing, virtually every single American with these viewpoints -- mentally in a place to raise a weapon to the government -- is a fat, out-of-shape slob Person Of Walmart that wouldn't last 5 minutes on any sort of battlefield, urban or otherwise. They're hooked on their corn dogs and Cheetos, their cheap gas and diesel, their hamburgers and water and so on. Sometimes, the argument is made that goes something like the military wouldn't fire on its own citizens; if so, why the need for guns with which to fight?
For another, when such actions occur against government "target" -- the Murrah Building bombing, Gabby Giffords -- the country gasps, with only 50 or so nuts in the backwoods of Michigan cheering. There will be no en masse armed revolution in the United States. Any militia guys driving around in pickups armed like Somali "technicals" looking for a fight will be swiftly dealt with as domestic terrorists and the rest of the country will breathe a sigh of relief, then go back to the mall.
-D-
Banned
Not interested in getting into a quagmire.
But this is not your old country and you brought that mentality that lead your old country into chaos to the new country (Canada).
It's when other ppl bring their garbage here and start it over e.g. SriLanka wars, and other groups.
iirc Canada did not have a civil war nor does it look like we are headed for one in my lifetime or yours.
Given the freedom to chose I would leave all that nutters to fight it out, head to some quiet place where it's warm (some island) and return after you are all dead to buy your land for pennies on the dollar.
Have you looked around Canada...people here are docile and the strongest thing they will do is send a harshly worded email (letter in the old days).
We are special, we are Canada.
-D-
Banned
@mmmmnaked
Let me show you what I think reasonable looks like.
You live on a farm or remote areas - you can apply for a rifle/shotgun/pistol (any or all 3)
You have a job that exposes you to certain possible dangers e.g. security/police/rancher - apply for either of those 3 guns
You hunt feral animals for population control - special permit and weapons stored at special facility until hunting season
You are a real hunter or sport hunter - permit to carry one of those
Gun range fun - rent gun, stays at range
City dweller - this gets tricky - you get a pistol (small mag, maybe revolver) - If you can demonstrate your life is in danger to some agency e.g. police and your life is in danger e.g. crazy stalker sending you threats...then special case to be reviewed. You get proper training and mental evaluation and away you go.
Gun collectors - another tricky area... if we can limit the type of cars on the roads and prevent people from having a pet cobra then it stands to reason we can figure this out too.
Nobody here needs a semi or auto than can fire ridiculous amounts of bullets er second or minute including armour piercing bullets.
Who you shooting with those bullets?
Deers don't come with armour?
If you have been charged and convicted of certain crimes, if you are on the no fly list, if you are reasonably suspected of trying to kill ppl then no gun for you.
Full mental testing and criminal background check and like your car license we renew your gun license the same by having you checked out again.
Nothing is stopping anyone from moving to another country to own all the guns they want...open carry too.
Let me show you what I think reasonable looks like.
You live on a farm or remote areas - you can apply for a rifle/shotgun/pistol (any or all 3)
You have a job that exposes you to certain possible dangers e.g. security/police/rancher - apply for either of those 3 guns
You hunt feral animals for population control - special permit and weapons stored at special facility until hunting season
You are a real hunter or sport hunter - permit to carry one of those
Gun range fun - rent gun, stays at range
City dweller - this gets tricky - you get a pistol (small mag, maybe revolver) - If you can demonstrate your life is in danger to some agency e.g. police and your life is in danger e.g. crazy stalker sending you threats...then special case to be reviewed. You get proper training and mental evaluation and away you go.
Gun collectors - another tricky area... if we can limit the type of cars on the roads and prevent people from having a pet cobra then it stands to reason we can figure this out too.
Nobody here needs a semi or auto than can fire ridiculous amounts of bullets er second or minute including armour piercing bullets.
Who you shooting with those bullets?
Deers don't come with armour?
If you have been charged and convicted of certain crimes, if you are on the no fly list, if you are reasonably suspected of trying to kill ppl then no gun for you.
Full mental testing and criminal background check and like your car license we renew your gun license the same by having you checked out again.
Nothing is stopping anyone from moving to another country to own all the guns they want...open carry too.
Problem with that is people who commit mass murder don't care what the gun look like too. What you've effectively done is inconvenienced a whole group without achieving anything.
Kinda like how they close down the Toronto gun range without achieving a goal
Riceburner
Well-known member
if you are going to do something illegal like mass murder, a can of spray paint covers up pink pretty good....and I don't think they care about breaking a paint colour law
LoneRonin
Well-known member
why does anyone need a supersport or a car with more than 150 hp??
Why does any rider need to not wear a helmet?
For those who think it's that easy to get an automatic weapon easy
https://youtu.be/UEihkjKNhN8
https://youtu.be/UEihkjKNhN8
-D-
Banned
uhm focus...
I don't want to get shot by one especially the ones that seem to fire bullets like rain falling and seemingly endless due to the large clips.
What chance does anyone have to at the least attack the shooter.
You just wrote above that your home country ended up in chaos likely why you are NOT living there...right
So why bring that ***** here and that mentality?
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
Whenever these events happen, people always focus more on the tool than the motive.
Even if this guy was not able to get an AR-15 (and that's a laugh right there, even the shooters in Paris had AK47s despite being banned there)... then he just would have used something else.
He would have loaded a truck bomb outside the club, smuggled a pressure cooker in there, drove into a pride parade with a truck, or any other way he could think of to kill the people he feels his god is telling him to kill.
Far greater numbers were killed in similar events around the world and not a single gun was used -- just look at the bali bombings for example 202 people killed, 209 injured when a night club was blown up using a minivan loaded with a explosives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
Those that want to kill will kill. The solution is not to try and remove all the tools, the solution is to remove the reason they want to kill -- sure, easier said than done -- but so is attempting to remove all tools that could be used to kill.
Even if this guy was not able to get an AR-15 (and that's a laugh right there, even the shooters in Paris had AK47s despite being banned there)... then he just would have used something else.
He would have loaded a truck bomb outside the club, smuggled a pressure cooker in there, drove into a pride parade with a truck, or any other way he could think of to kill the people he feels his god is telling him to kill.
Far greater numbers were killed in similar events around the world and not a single gun was used -- just look at the bali bombings for example 202 people killed, 209 injured when a night club was blown up using a minivan loaded with a explosives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
Those that want to kill will kill. The solution is not to try and remove all the tools, the solution is to remove the reason they want to kill -- sure, easier said than done -- but so is attempting to remove all tools that could be used to kill.
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