Why we need a minimum wage hike......

[inreb]

Well, if a capitalist society is forced to compete on a world stage with a communist country you may find more than a few reasons why people, regardless of whether they are wonderful or not, are able to run or not run a business that'll support a "decent" wage.

The girl poring my coffee isn't competing on the world stage. Altho she probably could she's so damn cute.

 

[Snobike Mike]

The girl poring my coffee isn't competing on the world stage. Altho she probably could she's so damn cute.

Since for sure you stand by your convictions and therefore are willing to put your money where your mouth is I'm sure you gave her a bit tip to compensate her for her low minimum wage while you sort out getting it raised formally.

 

[Schneller]

Maybe just leave communism out of this discussion. No one here is advocating that.

 

[Schneller]

Since for sure you stand by your convictions and therefore are willing to put your money where your mouth is I'm sure you gave her a bit tip to compensate her for her low minimum wage while you sort out getting it raised formally.

Don't you tip waitstaff?

 

[caboose56]

Generally taxes are calculated by percentage so your statement is illogical. Of course if salaries are higher and the tax rate is constant then the amount of tax you pay is more, that's nothing more than simple arithmetic. But that's not a logical argument in terms of economics.

I'm asking you about paying more taxes which would mean a higher marginal tax rate which you say is a good thing. Based on your claim, I in turn suggested a mini scientific experiment in which we would see how you'd like it if we increased your marginal tax rates which you flippantly waved off because it was "idiotic". In querying why you think it's idiotic you further deflected by saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

What we're discussing starts with economics 101 and moves into social studies 101. If you tax the rich to pay off the poor you are creating a dis-incentive for the rich to work harder and an incentive for the poor to work harder. That is the problem with your argument.


Well, if you say so.....

Do you really want to know why your hypothetical test was idiotic? Fine.

I never made a blanket statement that a higher tax rate was a good thing, I stated that a higher tax rate isn't necessarily a bad thing based on other possibilities. Salaries are higher in Norway and so is the tax percentage, the results (as per the link murf posted) of the two differences are that take home income in Norway is 46% higher than in Canada. Higher, not lower. Your proposal for me to simply pay more tax and change nothing else results in lower take-home income. Therefor, it is an idiotic proposal and is in no way an example of Norwegian life.

I am not familiar with how unemployment benefits and welfare works in Norway but their unemployment rate is currently 3.9%. I also don't see a notable increase in income tax rates at higher income levels so I will dismiss your "tax the rich to pay the poor" criticism as irrelevant to this discussion.

I used to consider myself a conservative, but I no longer agree with any political platforms because I disagree with the ideology of Canadian politics. I am not pro-tax, I am pro-competent-government.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Don't you tip waitstaff?

I certainly do, but not because I fundamentally feel that the national minimum wage should be increased.......

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Generally taxes are calculated by percentage so your statement is illogical. Of course if salaries are higher and the tax rate is constant then the amount of tax you pay is more, that's nothing more than simple arithmetic. But that's not a logical argument in terms of economics.

I'm asking you about paying more taxes which would mean a higher marginal tax rate which you say is a good thing. Based on your claim, I in turn suggested a mini scientific experiment in which we would see how you'd like it if we increased your marginal tax rates which you flippantly waved off because it was "idiotic". In querying why you think it's idiotic you further deflected by saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

What we're discussing starts with economics 101 and moves into social studies 101. If you tax the rich to pay off the poor you are creating a dis-incentive for the rich to work harder and an incentive for the poor to work harder. That is the problem with your argument.


Well, if you say so.....

I would suggest that you look at historic income tax rates. Some of the most wealthy families in Canada and the United States built their fortunes when income taxes were a multiple of what they currently pay. Oddly enough it wasn't a disincentive THEN.

 

[meme]

Don't you tip waitstaff?

For doing their job? No.

Be exceptional and I do.

 

[RockerGuy]

Seems like alot of people putting down the American system. I don't see it as such a bad thing. I guess it would be really bad for you if you can't manage your own finances because the government will not do it for you. Hence why you see such a large difference between the rich & the poor. If you're determined to work hard & get rich guess where people goes? America of course! Remember when doctors were all moving to the states?

About Norway, good luck getting businesses setting up shop in your country. With higher taxes & the cost of labour, good luck. When you start dishing out money think of where that $ has to come from

 

[ZX600]

That's idiotic. I'm not even going to explain why this statement is stupid.

Told you, there is no arguing in a logic intelligent way with the ideology of people like Snobike Mike

It's like trying to have a smart conversation with a Fox channel pundit

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Seems like alot of people putting down the American system. I don't see it as such a bad thing. I guess it would be really bad for you if you can't manage your own finances because the government will not do it for you. Hence why you see such a large difference between the rich & the poor. If you're determined to work hard & get rich guess where people goes? America of course! Remember when doctors were all moving to the states?

About Norway, good luck getting businesses setting up shop in your country. With higher taxes & the cost of labour, good luck. When you start dishing out money think of where that $ has to come from

The American system isn't so bad. At least it wouldn't be, if it operated as intended. Their taxes should be quite a bit lower than they are. The divide between the rich and poor, in that country, isn't so much a gap as it is a chasm. It's becoming bigger. The rich support that which makes them richer, to the detriment of the middle class and working poor.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Do you really want to know why your hypothetical test was idiotic? Fine.

I never made a blanket statement that a higher tax rate was a good thing,

I guess I misunderstood you when you said:

Tax is bad?

I used to think tax was bad.

I have a different opinion now, I no longer think high taxes is a bad thing,

I don't necessarily think paying more tax is a bad thing if you can see the bang for your buck you're getting from that taxation.

I stated that a higher tax rate isn't necessarily a bad thing based on other possibilities. Salaries are higher in Norway and so is the tax percentage, the results (as per the link murf posted) of the two differences are that take home income in Norway is 46% higher than in Canada. Higher, not lower. Your proposal for me to simply pay more tax and change nothing else results in lower take-home income. Therefor, it is an idiotic proposal and is in no way an example of Norwegian life.

You are completely ignoring the economic principle of inflation.

I am not familiar with how unemployment benefits and welfare works in Norway but their unemployment rate is currently 3.9%. I also don't see a notable increase in income tax rates at higher income levels so I will dismiss your "tax the rich to pay the poor" criticism as irrelevant to this discussion.

You can dismiss it but that doesn't mean it's logical to do so. Just because to you it appears from the outside that Norway is proof of high taxes/high minimum wage automatically translates into higher standard of living doesn't mean it will translate here in North America. My question still stands

I am pro-competent-government.

On this we can certainly agree.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Told you, there is no arguing in a logic intelligent way with the ideology of people like Snobike Mike

There most certainly is, but you actually need to provide logical responses, not emotional or rhetoric baseless deflecting responses.

You just claiming I'm not being logical doesn't mean your statement is true. Please provide specifics, not broad brush statements.

 

[murf]

Why did you leave out the comparison between take home salary after tax and health care or health insurance costs?

Like you said, you need to look at the whole, so why are you just quoting a few indices?

.

I copied the summary at the top, The link is there for the whole thing.
I was pointing out that yes the min wage is higher than ours, but the cost of living is also much higher, so are they in better shape?

 

[caboose56]

I guess I misunderstood you when you said:













You are completely ignoring the economic principle of inflation.



You can dismiss it but that doesn't mean it's logical to do so. Just because to you it appears from the outside that Norway is proof of high taxes/high minimum wage automatically translates into higher standard of living doesn't mean it will translate here in North America. My question still stands



On this we can certainly agree.

So you agree with me now. Good!

 

[ZX600]

Seems like alot of people putting down the American system. I don't see it as such a bad thing. I guess it would be really bad for you if you can't manage your own finances because the government will not do it for you. Hence why you see such a large difference between the rich & the poor. If you're determined to work hard & get rich guess where people goes? America of course! Remember when doctors were all moving to the states?

The US system is not a bad one but they do need to make some fundamental changes, starting with eliminating the ability of corporations with a lot of money to directly influence economical laws through lobbyist. When a congress man is payed by a bank millions of dollars, guess which way he is going to vote when important bank reform is supposed to be made?

Like the affordable health care act (Obamacare), Obama was not able to pass the laws he really wanted because the republican congress fought them to the point of almost bankrupting the country by shutting down funding to the government, so they end up with half *** compromised health care reform, guess who is lobbying the republican congress? Insurance Companies

But yet they (the republicans) brain wash their mostly low educated population of voters with little cute dialog like the one the OP posted on his first post and ensure that anyone that talks about social programs is painted as a traitor to their country when in reality these ****** bag congress men look after the interests of companies that fill their pockets with dollars instead of the people that elected them.

 

[ZX600]

There most certainly is, but you actually need to provide logical responses, not emotional or rhetoric baseless deflecting responses.

You just claiming I'm not being logical doesn't mean your statement is true. Please provide specifics, not broad brush statements.

I did, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear so you dismissed it or can't understand it! either way

 

[Schneller]

The US system is not a bad one but they do need to make some fundamental changes, starting with eliminating the ability of corporations with a lot of money to directly influence economical laws through lobbyist. When a congress man is payed by a bank millions of dollars, guess which way he is going to vote when important bank reform is supposed to be made?

Like the affordable health care act (Obamacare), Obama was not able to pass the laws he really wanted because the republican congress fought them to the point of almost bankrupting the country by shutting down funding to the government, so they end up with half *** compromised health care reform, guess who is lobbying the republican congress? Insurance Companies

But yet they (the republicans) brain wash their mostly low educated population of voters with little cute dialog like the one the OP posted on his first post and ensure that anyone that talks about social programs is painted as a traitor to their country when in reality these ****** bag congress men look after the interests of companies that fill their pockets with dollars instead of the people that elected them.

Bingo!

greed and corruption, looking out for their own best interest, **** the rest of the people/country

 

[Red_Liner740]

Paulo, you're a smart man but dude, when you go off on Republicans and Democrat ramble, you sound so frigging brain washed...PLEASE read into it more.

You are being mentally lazy if you belive that the Democrats are not paid and bought off anymore than the Repubs...

 

[Schneller]

Which party, Repub or Demo, is more accommodating to big business?

For me that's a no-brainer - Repub.

So who gets the most money thrown at them do you think?