That's how min wages work. It doesn't just set a floor for the lowest paying jobs, it increases the wages for those whose labour is worth more than the minimum. It pushes the whole bottom up. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Except when it doesn't work like that. I'm not getting a $1 raise anytime soon.
And yes, people don't wanna come slug boxes with us anymore because they can make the same wage at Wendy's. We used to be at least $2 above min wage.
Except when it doesn't work like that. I'm not getting a $1 raise anytime soon.
And yes, people don't wanna come slug boxes with us anymore because they can make the same wage at Wendy's. We used to be at least $2 above min wage.
It will take time for the upward pressure on salaries to have an effect, and it'll have a no measurable effect to those earning middle to high wages. But the bottom will be pushed up. That's just how the labour market works.
@fastar1 (we may be getting a little away from the topic)
I get that. The problem is that the prices have already gone up to accommodate the min wage increase. So although their buying power has increased, mine has decreased. Unexpectedly I have experienced a benefit: I eat fast food less as it is about $50 - $60 to feed my fam, so more $$ in my pocket. I also have dropped 15lbs.
@fastar1 (we may be getting a little away from the topic)
I get that. The problem is that the prices have already gone up to accommodate the min wage increase. So although their buying power has increased, mine has decreased. Unexpectedly I have experienced a benefit: I eat fast food less as it is about $50 - $60 to feed my fam, so more $$ in my pocket. I also have dropped 15lbs.
Yes! That's been my big concern with the min wage increase all along. It needed to be implemented more gradually for exactly that reason. But for middle and high income earners prices will always be proportionally higher than salary due to higher min wage. It's just that we should have a stronger economy after all the dust settles. Which in theory, is good for all of us.
It will take time for the upward pressure on salaries to have an effect, and it'll have a no measurable effect to those earning middle to high wages. But the bottom will be pushed up. That's just how the labour market works.
What's not discussed is as minimum wage increases so does the price of everything else. Your loaf of bread is now $3 instead of $2. Your minimum wage increased but so is the cost of everything else. So their spending power remains the same. As for people like me who didn't get a raise, we get a drop of value for our money.
That's how min wages work. It doesn't just set a floor for the lowest paying jobs, it increases the wages for those whose labour is worth more than the minimum. It pushes the whole bottom up. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Min wage primarily sets the floor, it's not an auto-ratchet for wages that were above minimum before the hike. Nobody really knows or understands the long term impact, only time will tell.
Min wage primarily sets the floor, it's not an auto-ratchet for wages that were above minimum before the hike. Nobody really knows or understands the long term impact, only time will tell.
No one is certain that there will be job losses, and no one is certain that there won’t be job losses.
It’s been pretty well established that the buying power for mid and high level earners will decrease and I do find myself spending less on frivolous things (mostly take out food, coffee, etc) as all those $2-$10 purchases add up. I’ve made some changes in my buying habits but I can’t say that it’s really changed my life in a negative way at all.
Some will buy more. Some will buy less. But ultimately the govt collects more income tax.
I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. Cost is a factor however it's not the most critical or the only factor. Illegal crossings overwhelm a system designed to care for real refugees - the ones who need help the most are congested by the cheaters. Why should a real refugee suffer most by following the proper path?
Illegal immigrants are also far more likely to be be inadmissible based on their prior backgrounds or actual refugee status. They end up being an unnecessary administrative and financial burden.
What's not discussed is as minimum wage increases so does the price of everything else. Your loaf of bread is now $3 instead of $2. Your minimum wage increased but so is the cost of everything else. So their spending power remains the same. As for people like me who didn't get a raise, we get a drop of value for our money.
Their spending power remains the same if a product's cost is made of 100% minimum wage labour. I don't think any such product exists, or anything close to it. A min wage hike is a substantial benefit to min wage earners.
As for people like you, you benefit from a society with less need for social supports, which in the long run means less taxes for the same social benefits.
Never mind that helping people in need is just the right thing to do. You'd have to have morals for that to mean anything to you.
Min wage primarily sets the floor, it's not an auto-ratchet for wages that were above minimum before the hike. Nobody really knows or understands the long term impact, only time will tell.
So when Scuba Steve complains about having to hike wages to attract the same quality of worker even though he already pays them more than min wage, are you saying he doesn't know what he's doing?
And do you think the labour market doesn't work? Or it doesn't exist? Because when markets work, that's what they do. They increase the value of rare commodities like trained labour versus untrained labour.
manufacturing is a tough business
we got by here for decades on a low dollar
low energy prices, socialized health care
and a good work force that knows they have to show up
some of those things are now gone in Ontario
and American isolationism is installing them there
thanks to a certain economic strategy that turned our economy into a gas station
we got the low dollar back, but I don't think the business is coming back
Years ago I worked for a window manufacturer and someone in the office let it slip to the plant that when glass was ordered for a project 10% was added for breakage.
So the receiver became careless because there was 10% allowed, the cutter became careless, the material handlers became careless and the fabricators became careless. We ended up short on glass because everyone thought it was OK to waste a little bit.
The boss had to read the riot act to straighten things out. We need a leader to read the riot act.
So when Scuba Steve complains about having to hike wages to attract the same quality of worker even though he already pays them more than min wage, are you saying he doesn't know what he's doing?
Not at all. I don't know what line of business Scuba Steve is in or what he's looking for. I can tell you there is no shortage of people applying for $20/hr office jobs in Toronto, and mechanically competent shop workers who can feed and operate a CNC machine are easy to find at $20/hr in Newmarket.
And do you think the labour market doesn't work? Or it doesn't exist? Because when markets work, that's what they do. They increase the value of rare commodities like trained labour versus untrained labour.
In Ontario it's not a typical labor market -- the gov't has a pretty big thumb on the scales.
My guess is Steve's problem partly because he's in a small center that with an employment base that does not sustain a large number of skilled techs. Move the plant to Brampton and things would probably be easier. Many small centers are facing this dilemma -- as plant close, high skill workers don't hang around -- millwrights, welders, and other skilled manufacturing workers head to the bigger cities to fund work -- they don't come back if there's only one employer in town.
I worked for Steve in "pre retirement" mode.As i saw it from my perspective,basic work ethics was the biggest problem.It was very hard to get young people to put any effort into learning how to do the work and be there on time to get it done.Too many people want to sit in a cubicle and play with their ****ing cellphones.Grrrr!
I worked for Steve in "pre retirement" mode.As i saw it from my perspective,basic work ethics was the biggest problem.It was very hard to get young people to put any effort into learning how to do the work and be there on time to get it done.Too many people want to sit in a cubicle and play with their ****ing cellphones.Grrrr!
My accountant figures they lose an hour per day per employee due to texting and surfing. The only product they sell is their employees time so about 15% pilferage.
I worked for Steve in "pre retirement" mode.As i saw it from my perspective,basic work ethics was the biggest problem.It was very hard to get young people to put any effort into learning how to do the work and be there on time to get it done.Too many people want to sit in a cubicle and play with their ****ing cellphones.Grrrr!
This is true. In my line of work I deal with a lot of millennials, I see a fundamentally different view of work ethic and duty when compared to GenX and Baby Boomers. I also see a lot less goal setting, and a large number that stay dependent on their parents into their late 20s.
When I say this I don't mean all, I mean most. I run into lots of industrious hard working milennials -- just not as many as I remember from prior generations.
If the demand for workers is high (e.g. Steve) and the supply is low (unemployment), shouldn't supply and demand already set the rates for good workers, without the need for a minimum wage hike?
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