Road Tolls coming to Toronto | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Road Tolls coming to Toronto

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Tolls on gardiner and dvp will simply increase parallel traffic on the collector and arterial roads even more. This will be immediate effect of it, plus i doubt the revenue collected would be enough to address the issue later in time. If they couldn't keep up with the deteriorating gardiner infrastructure how could they keep up with the future one. Big cities will always be pain in the crack, it is what it is typical bureaucratic approach.
 
Flywheel said:
It will be much worse than that. What company in Ontario is both hated AND has expertise in toll roads? Yes, 407 International Incorporated! If Toronto has so little (mismanaged) money that road tolls are required, then a public/private partnership is in the offing.

Until our elected representatives and their subordinates face the possibility of being charged with fraud for their incompetence or malfeasance, then this sort of dickery will continue to spread.
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And if 407 is contracted to collect and administer the tolling, you can count on the Provincial Gov't thru Service Ontario to act as their collection agency. So any dispute you may have over the tolls or late payments will result in the inability to renew your licence, unless you give in to their demands.
 
A congestion charge the way London (UK) implements it would probably make more sense, and it would address the situation with people bypassing the toll by using surface streets. ALL roads that cross the boundary would hit you with the congestion charge. It would suck for people who live just outside (or just inside) the boundary and work or live just on the other side of it.

London has distorted their congestion charge by waiving it for vehicles with less than a certain officially rated CO2 emissions (just as we have distorted our HOV/HOT lanes by making them free for "green" vehicles). Guess what; electric cars still cause congestion.
 
If only we had a mayor that was committed to fighting against taxes, someone who would stop the gravy train, if you will. On second thought, that might prove embarrassing. Perhaps a former talk show host, or a provincial also-ran might be the sort of leader we need for Canada's largest city. Decisions, decisions. #inreb2016
 
Brian P said:
A congestion charge the way London (UK) implements it would probably make more sense, and it would address the situation with people bypassing the toll by using surface streets. ALL roads that cross the boundary would hit you with the congestion charge. It would suck for people who live just outside (or just inside) the boundary and work or live just on the other side of it.

London has distorted their congestion charge by waiving it for vehicles with less than a certain officially rated CO2 emissions (just as we have distorted our HOV/HOT lanes by making them free for "green" vehicles). Guess what; electric cars still cause congestion.
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London also had a transit system in place that was more effective than using private vehicles when the congestion charge zone was put in place. In Toronto, transit is only faster if you both live and work on a subway line with no more than 1 transfer required. You can't hit people with a stick if the carrot alternative is only the hope of a carrot sometime in the future. And that carrot isn't really a carrot as all proposed new transit options don't even keep up with growth.
 
Flywheel said:
If only we had a mayor that was committed to fighting against taxes, someone who would stop the gravy train, if you will. On second thought, that might prove embarrassing. Perhaps a former talk show host, or a provincial also-ran might be the sort of leader we need for Canada's largest city. Decisions, decisions. #inreb2016
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If only the answer were so simple! (no offence Inreb)
 
Why hasn't anybody suggested selling the offending roads to foreign interests? We get the money, they get the headaches.
 
FWIW, I seem to remember reading somewhere that Tory's vision for the gardiner/dvp road tolls was suggesting plate cameras and a system like the 407. All the existing legislation for the 407 toll road could easily be adopted in that case. Though, as discussed earlier, his vision is basically a fast tax grab and fraught with shortcomings.

Very true Face. I disagree with toll roads completely, but if discussing it I do agree that a cordon area (aka congestion charge) makes much more sense than a gardiner/dvp toll.


Brian P said:
London has distorted their congestion charge by waiving it for vehicles with less than a certain officially rated CO2 emissions (just as we have distorted our HOV/HOT lanes by making them free for "green" vehicles). Guess what; electric cars still cause congestion.
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FWIW, London ended the green vehicle discount years ago and it's gone now completely.
 
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kwtoxman said:
Very true Face. I disagree with toll roads completely, but if discussing it I do agree that a cordon area (aka congestion charge) makes much more sense than a gardiner/dvp toll.
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So anyone going through Toronto from say Kitchener to Oshawa on the 401 would have to pay the Toronto toll? Or pay the 407 toll to go around Toronto?
 
Face said:
So anyone going through Toronto from say Kitchener to Oshawa on the 401 would have to pay the Toronto toll? Or pay the 407 toll to go around Toronto?
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Well Toronto doesn't have jurisdiction over the 400 series highways...they're provincial
 
Face said:
So anyone going through Toronto from say Kitchener to Oshawa on the 401 would have to pay the Toronto toll? Or pay the 407 toll to go around Toronto?
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401 doesn't have to be part of the cordon toll and I doubt people envision that either. The DVP doesn't even start until south of the 401. Is that your supposition to be against it? Easily discounted as the cordon area could be selected a variety of ways. No one has suggested a specific cordon area here, and one article I linked earlier discussed a small area which very much excluded the 401. Many examples can work, such as the cordon area could be downtown specific, or begin at eglinton, or weston, or just south of the 401. Even if one suggests the cordon area begin north of the 401 the cordon could reasonably easily exclude the 401 highway. I don't see any significant issues here.
 
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inreb said:
Why hasn't anybody suggested selling the offending roads to foreign interests? We get the money, they get the headaches.
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I like your style, MAYOR. Not even a crack high could bring you down. The burbs will retaliate though, even if Hurricane Hazel has retired. Provincial scuttlebutt has it that road tolls are the new casinos. Modern leaders don't need thinking, they need magic bullets and a stiff drink to steady their pistols. Who's ready to be saved by monorails and ferris wheels?#inreb2016.
 
Flywheel said:
I like your style, MAYOR. Not even a crack high could bring you down. The burbs will retaliate though, even if Hurricane Hazel has retired. Provincial scuttlebutt has it that road tolls are the new casinos. Modern leaders don't need thinking, they need magic bullets and a stiff drink to steady their pistols. Who's ready to be saved by monorails and ferris wheels?#inreb2016.
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Bueller?
 
kwtoxman said:
401 doesn't have to be part of the cordon toll and I doubt people envision that either. The DVP doesn't even start until south of the 401. Is that your supposition to be against it? Easily discounted as the cordon area could be selected a variety of ways. No one has suggested a specific cordon area here, and one article I linked earlier discussed a small area which very much excluded the 401. Many examples can work, such as the cordon area could be downtown specific, or begin at eglinton, or weston, or just south of the 401. Even if one suggests the cordon area begin north of the 401 the cordon could reasonably easily exclude the 401 highway. I don't see any significant issues here.
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All I'm saying is a cordon area is not so simple. A full cordon at the City borders would need to include the 401 as well if the point is to charge 905ers coming into Toronto but not Toronto taxpayers travelling in Toronto. Otherwise you would need to toll every off ramp and anyone using the 401 from say Scarborough to Etobicoke would be tolled as if they came from 905.

If the toll was a smaller cordoned area, you will see huge fights over where the boundary is. 2 neighbours - I want to be in because I mostly drive downtown and don't want to pay. No, I want to be out because I work at in North Scarborough and I don't want to pay a toll every time I come home from work.

If the area became too focused, you wouldn't see the big revenues their counting on from the Gardiner & DVP.
 
Anything can be done, sometimes easily. I saw discussion somewhere noting that even though all cars entering can/could be identified by camera, only non-Toronto addresses associated with those plates could be charged, for example. Frankly, we have the technology in the 21st century to make various options work.

As for revenues, that's the rub IMO. I think Tory showed his true intentions with the proposal as he described it. The DVP/Gardiner tolls are about revenue generation and lots of it; and in reality not about getting 905 or other commuters to pay as he framed it, nor will it reduce traffic much.
 
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Congestion tax you say...hmmm just don't expand roads and when you build new ones, under build to create congestion. At the end of the day this is the new financial tool (lol).

What stops them from simply passing a blanket congestion tax (license renewal fee) under the guise of using the money for roads?
 
A license renewal fee doesn't really discourage people from driving downtown and taking transit instead. If you have to pay a toll then you get people to start adding up the numbers; driving will cost X and transit will cost Y.

I already take transit to anything downtown that is anywhere near a subway line, because it costs too much to park and takes too long to find parking and get in and out of downtown.
 
Face said:
London also had a transit system in place that was more effective than using private vehicles when the congestion charge zone was put in place. In Toronto, transit is only faster if you both live and work on a subway line with no more than 1 transfer required. You can't hit people with a stick if the carrot alternative is only the hope of a carrot sometime in the future. And that carrot isn't really a carrot as all proposed new transit options don't even keep up with growth.
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Bingo ... to suggest that TTC or Go is a viable alternative across the board in GTA is a cruel joke. And that is the root cause of all GTA traffic problems and has been for decades and will continue to be the case, because it's simply too late now (unless they can stop influx of new people and traffic coming through ... unlikely) ... too much infrastructure around and clueless politicians who think they can finance major transit system from ride increases.
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